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    Re: Latest SCFC/SCSC Minutes Archived Message

    Posted by Unbelievable Geoff on 22/5/2023, 7:46 pm, in reply to "Re: Latest SCFC/SCSC Minutes"

    Hi Halstead, the key difference between Red and me is his use of one word - loyalty. This long post is about why a club or the Coop using the word loyalty matters.

    Short version – ‘Loyalty’ is a trigger word which football clubs and supporter organisations should steer clear of.

    Plenty of clubs advertise a 'loyalty' scheme, but that will just be the tick-box marketing exec whose previous job was at a pan manufacturers and whose next job will at a security firm looking in their wallet, seeing their Boots loyalty card, and not thinking about what they are doing through the lens of a football fan. Despite being owned by some fans and run at one point by fans(?) Tony and Mary, our club only reconnected with fans post Ryan and I HATED that period, so any time I see someone saying something that even so much as hints we are straying away from our reformed bond I will explain their mistake. (As I see it. 😊 ) ESPECIALLY if that hint comes from someone who is meant to be representing other fans.

    Red can’t know everything about everything but if he has put himself up for the Coop Board I expect him to read and consider properly what another fan writes with a view that he may possibly learn something, but it looks like he read my last post from a starting position of wanting to double down on what he had written. Red is meant to be ‘representing’ fans, not using his role as a green light to go about things as he sees them.

    The definition of loyalty at Tesco is defined and judged by Tesco, and no one cares what it is called just so long as they get a few coupons every month. Spend more, get more. The word loyalty at Tesco is transactional.

    Loyalty in football is a whole different thing altogether. I have never met a football fan who I suspect would define loyalty in the same transactional terms as Tesco. The concept and definition of loyalty in football belongs to each and every fan individually, and will very often include an association with supporting a club through its darker days. Loyalty means different things to different fans.

    Loyalty in football is not the club’s or supporters’ organisation’s business. Loyalty is not theirs to define, especially when based on the size of the fans' pocket, personal circumstances, etc. When a club or supporters’ organisation takes the definition of loyalty away from fans by defining it and measuring each fan against it and therefore every fan against every other fan it is admission that they lack care or understanding (or ability to do either).

    But I am not saying a club should not measure and reward a fan based on transactions, like Tesco, just that they should never use the word loyalty.

    My scenarios used the same data in both cases with the same ‘no ticket for you’ outcome, but show how loyalty can and (read the Supporters’ Facebook page) will be interpreted by some fans. Why would you want to pee people off for the sake of a few words?

    Any scheme not containing the word loyalty

    I would be telling Andy 'sorry, you have not purchased for enough games under the ticket purchaser benefit scheme which rewards fans for games purchased'. That is a technical fact. Now, it is a shame he couldn't come because of his mum, but I haven't rubbed salt in his wounds, it is just a fact. I am not questioning him or judging him, they are the rules – the same as Red’s – and I have not made him feel any worse than he does already.

    Any scheme containing the word loyalty

    But, Red, using the same data would be telling Andy 'sorry, you have not purchased for enough games under the loyalty scheme which rewards fans for loyalty'. That is also a technical fact (because the criteria are identical to mine). Now, it is a shame he couldn't come because of his mum, but Red has questioned his LOYALTY. So in addition to missing out Andy has been ‘loyal enough’.

    * The data should not be about actual attendance. Imagine you and a friend purchased a ticket for a match. We had both committed our money in advance without knowing whether it would be a great or a gash match. On your way to the match you received news that your house was flooding so you obviously do not attend, and will be managing a lot of stress and worry over the next few weeks and months. You think you will treat yourself to the next big match and Red says 'sorry, you missed the cut - you may have committed your money in advance by purchasing a ticket but because you didn’t come to the match you are not as loyal as someone who was able to attended – never mind there was most likely a good reason for not attending. That is nothing to do with loyalty, but that is what Red's scheme is called, and you just failed to be loyal enough. Of course, a club would never know the reason you didn't turn up, but it is safe to assume it is highly likely to have been for a very good (and not nice) reason. But there is the RedGpt bot adding insult to injury.

    It should be counted on 'purchases' - it may be the wrong word, as the purchaser of the ticket should be able to assign to any other person on the system (automatically to a friends and family group, or subject the named person accepting the ticket) and that person should get the ‘credit’.

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