Many thanks!
Posted by Pat MacAodha on January 19, 2005, 11:49 pm
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Re: Many thanks!
Posted by Anne on January 20, 2005, 2:01 pm, in reply to "Many thanks!" Thanks for your kind comments and welcome to the world society of Whittemore enthusiasts. By your name you are Irish or of Irish origin. No wonder you like Joe in the books! Anne --Previous Message--
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Re: Many thanks!
Posted by Pat MacAodha on January 24, 2005, 10:51 pm, in reply to "Re: Many thanks!" --Previous Message--
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Speaking of Irish poetry
Posted by Jean-Daniel BREQUE on April 25, 2005, 11:06 pm, in reply to "Re: Many thanks!" Pat said about Edward Whittemore: I found a poetry quotation while translating Jerusalem Poker, that verse about "a pint of plain", and identified it as the work of Flann O'Brien, from his book At Swim-Two-Birds. I then hunted a copy of the French translation of this book, in order to use it in my translation, and--though I only had time to browse it--it seemed I'd found one of Edward Whittemore's inspirations. At the very least, Mr. O'Brien and Mr. Whittemore seemed to share a disdain for quotation marks... Back to work, P.S. At Swim-Two-Birds was published in 1939, and Joe quotes it in 1933. Time is.
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Re: Speaking of Irish poetry
Posted by Anne on April 26, 2005, 1:46 pm, in reply to "Speaking of Irish poetry" My favorite is The Third Policeman. My, you certainly are thorough, Jean-Daniel, I am gobsmacked. revious Message--
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Re: Speaking of reality
Posted by Jean-Daniel BREQUE on April 26, 2005, 2:46 pm, in reply to "Re: Speaking of Irish poetry" Why, thank you, Anne. I try harder. Thoroughness, continued: did you know that some of the more extravagant characters in the Quartet are not fictitious? Numa Numantius and Yakouba, the White Monk of Timbuktu, for instance. How about a new feature on this site, "Historical Sources of the Quartet," for instance? Best,
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Re: Speaking of reality
Posted by Anne on April 27, 2005, 4:52 pm, in reply to "Re: Speaking of reality" "How about a new feature on this site, "Historical Sources of the Quartet," for instance?" It will be an interesting exercise. I envisage a page with pictures (if available) of the personages/events, a short paragraph on the subject, with a link to a more detailed description on the web. I do trust you will assist with your superior investigation skills, Jean-Daniel. Anne
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More thoroughness
Posted by Jean-Daniel BREQUE on April 26, 2005, 3:40 pm, in reply to "Re: Speaking of reality" Did you know that Well, you ain't seen nothing yet. Check Johann Luigi Burckhardt on Google... Who needs fantasy? Reality beats the hell out of it anytime. Jean-Daniel (still waiting for 50,000 people to show up: they want to see this baby fly)
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Re: More thoroughness
Posted by Anne on April 27, 2005, 4:57 pm, in reply to "More thoroughness" I suppose you already know about the O'Sullivan Beare Clan. Google is a wonderful thing. Cheers, Anne
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Re: More thoroughness
Posted by Jean-Daniel BREQUE on April 27, 2005, 7:46 pm, in reply to "Re: More thoroughness" Yakouba was the subject of a book by William Seabrook. I'll have to look it up, but it seems the White Monk didn't live in the same time frame as "Strongbow". As for Johann Luigi Burckhardt, he was one of the first Christians/white men to enter Medina, and he rediscovered Petra. His name is mentioned in Jericho Mosaic, which aroused my suspicions. I'll keep you posted. Jean-Daniel
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Re: More thoroughness
Posted by Anne on April 27, 2005, 8:16 pm, in reply to "Re: More thoroughness" I don't know about "Our Colly" but the link below has the story of Joe's ancestors as told in "Sinai Tapestry" Anne --Previous Message--
Link: O'Sullivan Beare
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Re: More thoroughness
Posted by Jean-Daniel BREQUE on April 27, 2005, 10:33 pm, in reply to "Re: More thoroughness" I see what you mean, indeed. You know, the more I get into the Quartet, the more I see the similarities with Tolkien. In The Lord of the Rings, Aragorn, Gandalf et al are reenacting the mighty deeds of a bygone golden age, they are but shadows of their ancestors. The same thread runs through the Quartet, with characters like Joe, Stern and Munk longing for the 19th century, the time where giants like Strongbow, Johann Luigi Szondi and Menelik Ziwar roamed the Earth. No offense to the critics, but I think the Quartet is in need of serious critical attention. Jean-Daniel --Previous Message--
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Re: More thoroughness
Posted by Anne on April 28, 2005, 12:26 pm, in reply to "Re: More thoroughness" I have been thinking about the way Whittemore uses history. He reports the facts accurately and then it is as if he goes on to ask "What happened next?" and formulates his own quirky outcome. The books are really a fictionalised secret history. One always has the impression that something beyond explanation is being conveyed. By the way, did you notice the reference to "The Alexandria Quartet" by Lawrence Durrell in Jerusalem Poker? It's on page 216 of the OEB edition. It refers to the poems of Arnauti who happens to be Justine's old lover in the novel "Justine". Cheers, Anne
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Re: More thoroughness
Posted by Jean-Daniel BREQUE on April 28, 2005, 3:48 pm, in reply to "Re: More thoroughness" Thanks for the Durrell reference: I knew there was one in Jerusalem Poker, thanks to an article on this site, but I didn't know what it was. I've not read The Alexandria Quartet yet, but I'd like to. Just found an allusion to Ulysses in Jerusalem Poker, by the way, but i think Joyce is deliberately misquoted here. Jean-Daniel
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Re: More thoroughness
Posted by Anne on April 28, 2005, 4:28 pm, in reply to "Re: More thoroughness" Actually the Alexandria Quartet is a good companion piece to the Jerusalem Quartet even though the two quartets are very different in style. Whittemore was obviously very widely read. I wonder if he and Durrell ever met, they both hung around in the same area of the world, so it's quite likely. In fact, now I think of it, they must have, because I came across a reference to Whittemore on a site which listed Durrell's books and papers and there was a copy of Sinai Tapestry among them. Cheers, Anne --Previous Message--
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Re: More thoroughness
Posted by Pat MacAodha on May 1, 2005, 7:00 pm, in reply to "Re: More thoroughness"
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Re: More thoroughness
Posted by Jean-Daniel BREQUE on May 3, 2005, 3:48 pm, in reply to "Re: More thoroughness" Thanks for the long message. I don't have time to go into it in detail, but I can answer it on a few points. I take great pleasure in translating Whittemore, but I'm doing it as a professional: the Quartet has been acquired by French publisher Robert Laffont, and editor Gerard Klein--who usually handles their SF line--has asked me to translate it. Le Codex du Sinai, aka Sinai Tapestry, has just been released, and the cover can be seen on this site. As for your musings on the character of Joe O'Sullivan Beare, I think they are right on target. I think the Quartet, among other things, charts a process of what John Clute calls "thinning", ie the passing of the legends (Strongbow, Menelik Ziwar, Yakouba...) and the dawning of a more prosaic world. See Joe's line in Jerusalem Poker, where he wishes he had been one of these characters. This is a very complex and very moving theme, with a lot of resonance in literature. And Whittemore's work manages to be more than that, too. About Borges: his work contains multitudes. Back to deadline-fighting,
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Re: More thoroughness
Posted by Pat MacAodha on May 4, 2005, 1:20 am, in reply to "Re: More thoroughness" That is spendid news! I have some relatives in France who I always thought would love these books. Now they may read them in their native language. Thank you (and thanks to your publishing house) for making that possible. --Previous Message--
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Re: Many thanks!
Posted by Pat MacAodha on January 24, 2005, 10:54 pm, in reply to "Re: Many thanks!" --Previous Message--
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