Jerusalem Dreaming Message Board

the roots

Posted by jonathan on December 11, 2001, 9:39 pm

Whilst i was university i tried establishing some of the sources of Whittemore's inspiration.

I found that there was in fact a priest named Father Yakouba that worked at a mission somewhere in North Africa.

i have always wondered if Plantagenet Strongbow is not based on both Sir Richard Burton and Lawrence of Arabia. The former due his incredible language skills and general genius...the latter for the passages from The Seven Pillars of Wisdom.

Any thoughts??

Re: the roots

Posted by Anne on December 12, 2001, 2:50 pm

Oh, I agree. I remember, when I first read Sinai Tapestry, thinking that Strongbow was inspired by Richard Burton. As Whittemore was a Yale graduate in History, no doubt quite a few characters and events are derived from historical personages and events.

There REALLY was an ancient version of the Bible discovered at St Catherine's Monastery.

It would be an intriguing study (had one the time) to discover the original source for Cairo Martyr for instance.

In Jericho Mosaic there is a character called Yossi, a Jewish agent for Mossad who passes himself off as an Arab and leads a double life. I recall seeing a documentary once on a Mossad agent who was a dead ringer for Yossi.

I'd be interested to see other visitors to this Board's opinions on this.

Re: the roots

Posted by Mark Mueller on April 13, 2002, 9:41 am

I don`t know about many of the other characters, but I do know that there is a genuine line of Skanderbegs who ruled in Albania.

--Previous Message--
: Oh, I agree. I remember, when I first read
: Sinai Tapestry, thinking that Strongbow
: was inspired by Richard Burton. As
: Whittemore was a Yale graduate in History,
: no doubt quite a few characters and events
: are derived from historical personages and
: events.
: There REALLY was an ancient version of the
: Bible discovered at St Catherine's
: Monastery.
: It would be an intriguing study (had one the
: time) to discover the original source for
: Cairo Martyr for instance.
: In Jericho Mosaic there is a character called
: Yossi, a Jewish agent for Mossad who
: passes himself off as an Arab and leads a
: double life. I recall seeing a documentary
: once on a Mossad agent who was a dead
: ringer for Yossi.
: I'd be interested to see other visitors to
: this Board's opinions on this.
:
:

Re: the roots

Posted by Jean-Daniel BREQUE on May 31, 2006, 11:17 pm, in reply to "Re: the roots"

I'm going back to this old thread, because the subject is a fascinating one.
Yes, the White Monk of Timbuktu was real (though he lived a bit later than "our" Yakouba), and he's not the only Whittemore character to be rooted in reality.
To wit:
--the story of the O'Sullivan Beare clan is real (I found it on several Irish websites);
--Plantagenet Strongbow is, of course, inspired by Sir Richard Burton;
--Johann Luigi Szondi is inspired by Johann Luigi Burckhardt, the "discoverer" of Petra;
--Sofia is partly inspired by oil millionnaire Gulbenkian (whose name is mentioned en passant in Nile Shadows), nicknamed Mr. Five-per-cent;
--the "Three Wise Men" who visit Joe in his kiva at the beginning of Nile Shadows are William Donovan (Big Bill), William Stephenson (Little Bill) and Stewart Menzies (Ming)--look them up!
--the rue Lepsius, aka rue Clapsius, was the Cairo address of poet Constantin Cavafy (Ann tells me it figures proeminently in Durrell's "Alexandria Quartet")...

Did any critic or reviewer work on that side of Whittemore's work? I could find nothing on the web.

Jean-Daniel (translating Nile Shadows right now)

--Previous Message--
: : I don`t know about many of the other
: characters, but I do know that there is a
: genuine line of Skanderbegs who ruled in
: Albania.
:
: --Previous Message--
: Oh, I agree. I remember, when I first read
: Sinai Tapestry, thinking that Strongbow
: was inspired by Richard Burton. As
: Whittemore was a Yale graduate in History,
: no doubt quite a few characters and events
: are derived from historical personages and
: events.
: There REALLY was an ancient version of the
: Bible discovered at St Catherine's
: Monastery.
: It would be an intriguing study (had one the
: time) to discover the original source for
: Cairo Martyr for instance.
: In Jericho Mosaic there is a character
: called
: Yossi, a Jewish agent for Mossad who
: passes himself off as an Arab and leads a
: double life. I recall seeing a documentary
: once on a Mossad agent who was a dead
: ringer for Yossi.
: I'd be interested to see other visitors to
: this Board's opinions on this.
:
:
:
:

Re: the roots

Posted by Anne on June 1, 2006, 1:03 pm, in reply to "Re: the roots"

Jean-Daniel,

I'm glad you came back to this thread, it's always intriguing discovering Whittemore's sources for his characters and localities.

As far as I know no critic has ventured into this area of investigation or even thought of it.

It does require some esoteric knowledge, so it is amazing to think of Whittemore using these obscure historical figures in building his characters.

Regarding the Rue Lepsius, I believe it was Cavafy's address in Alexandria and the ground floor was a brothel. I think Whittemore's use of the street name for the location of the Hotel Babylon (a former brothel too) in Cairo is a nod to both Durrell and Cavafy. Cavafy is referred to in the Alexandria Quartet as "the old poet of the city".

It was Durrell and EM Forster who raised Western awareness of Cavafy's poetry in the 1950s/60s. I have a copy of Cavafy's complete poems which I purchased back in the late 60s, early 70s. He was trendy then, as was the Alexandria Quartet.

I've tried to search out the source of Our Colly of Champagne with no success, though I am sure there must be some historical personage with similar exploits.

I keenly look forward to further revelations from Nile Shadows and really appreciate you sharing your discoveries with the rest of us, Jean-Daniel.

Anne

--Previous Message--
: I'm going back to this old thread, because the
: subject is a fascinating one.
: Yes, the White Monk of Timbuktu was real
: (though he lived a bit later than
: "our" Yakouba), and he's not the
: only Whittemore character to be rooted in
: reality.
: To wit: --the story of the O'Sullivan Beare
: clan is real (I found it on several Irish
: websites);
: --Plantagenet Strongbow is, of course,
: inspired by Sir Richard Burton;
: --Johann Luigi Szondi is inspired by Johann
: Luigi Burckhardt, the "discoverer"
: of Petra;
: --Sofia is partly inspired by oil
: millionnaire Gulbenkian (whose name is
: mentioned en passant in Nile Shadows),
: nicknamed Mr. Five-per-cent;
: --the "Three Wise Men" who visit
: Joe in his kiva at the beginning of Nile
: Shadows are William Donovan (Big Bill),
: William Stephenson (Little Bill) and Stewart
: Menzies (Ming)--look them up!
: --the rue Lepsius, aka rue Clapsius, was the
: Cairo address of poet Constantin Cavafy (Ann
: tells me it figures proeminently in
: Durrell's "Alexandria Quartet")...
:
: Did any critic or reviewer work on that side
: of Whittemore's work? I could find nothing
: on the web.
:
: Jean-Daniel (translating Nile Shadows right
: now)
:
: --Previous Message--
: : I don`t know about many of the other
: characters, but I do know that there is a
: genuine line of Skanderbegs who ruled in
: Albania.
:
: --Previous Message--
: Oh, I agree. I remember, when I first read
: Sinai Tapestry, thinking that Strongbow
: was inspired by Richard Burton. As
: Whittemore was a Yale graduate in History,
: no doubt quite a few characters and events
: are derived from historical personages and
: events.
: There REALLY was an ancient version of the
: Bible discovered at St Catherine's
: Monastery.
: It would be an intriguing study (had one the
: time) to discover the original source for
: Cairo Martyr for instance.
: In Jericho Mosaic there is a character
: called
: Yossi, a Jewish agent for Mossad who
: passes himself off as an Arab and leads a
: double life. I recall seeing a documentary
: once on a Mossad agent who was a dead
: ringer for Yossi.
: I'd be interested to see other visitors to
: this Board's opinions on this.
:
:
:
:
:
:

Re: the roots

Posted by Jean-Daniel BREQUE on June 3, 2006, 6:10 am, in reply to "Re: the roots"

Sorry for the Cairo/Alexandria mix-up.
No luck with "Our Colly". Liffy sounds intriguing, too...
It seems that Whittemore took "characters" (in both senses of the words) from real life, but adapted them to fit his novelistic ends, altering their names or the time/place they were associated with.
A close reading of the texts can give some clues: for instance, the name of Burckhardt is mentioned in "Jericho Mosaic", with the Petra quote that is earlier attributed to Johann Luigi Szondi. Maybe another name will later on lead me to the "real" Colly, for instance...
Back to work, with keyboard and magnifying glass.
JD
PS : Cavafy's poems were translated into French by Marguerite Yourcenar, and are readily avalaible here.

--Previous Message--
: Jean-Daniel,
:
: I'm glad you came back to this thread, it's
: always intriguing discovering Whittemore's
: sources for his characters and localities.
:
: As far as I know no critic has ventured into
: this area of investigation or even thought
: of it.
:
: It does require some esoteric knowledge, so
: it is amazing to think of Whittemore using
: these obscure historical figures in building
: his characters.
:
: Regarding the Rue Lepsius, I believe it was
: Cavafy's address in Alexandria and the
: ground floor was a brothel. I think
: Whittemore's use of the street name for the
: location of the Hotel Babylon (a former
: brothel too) in Cairo is a nod to both
: Durrell and Cavafy. Cavafy is referred to in
: the Alexandria Quartet as "the old poet
: of the city".
:
: It was Durrell and EM Forster who raised
: Western awareness of Cavafy's poetry in the
: 1950s/60s. I have a copy of Cavafy's
: complete poems which I purchased back in the
: late 60s, early 70s. He was trendy then, as
: was the Alexandria Quartet.
:
: I've tried to search out the source of Our
: Colly of Champagne with no success, though I
: am sure there must be some historical
: personage with similar exploits.
:
: I keenly look forward to further revelations
: from Nile Shadows and really appreciate you
: sharing your discoveries with the rest of
: us, Jean-Daniel.
:
: Anne
:

Re: the roots

Posted by Joe on June 6, 2006, 1:34 am, in reply to "Re: the roots"

Geez. A scholar could spend years unpacking the historical and literary nods in Whittemore's novels. EW's historical worldliness is incomparable, and his use of that knowledge in fiction dwarfs similar attempts by Pynchon and DeLillo. But they attain literary fame? Go figure.

--Previous Message--
: Sorry for the Cairo/Alexandria mix-up.
: No luck with "Our Colly". Liffy
: sounds intriguing, too...
: It seems that Whittemore took
: "characters" (in both senses of
: the words) from real life, but adapted them
: to fit his novelistic ends, altering their
: names or the time/place they were associated
: with.
: A close reading of the texts can give some
: clues: for instance, the name of Burckhardt
: is mentioned in "Jericho Mosaic",
: with the Petra quote that is earlier
: attributed to Johann Luigi Szondi. Maybe
: another name will later on lead me to the
: "real" Colly, for instance...
: Back to work, with keyboard and magnifying
: glass.
: JD
: PS : Cavafy's poems were translated into
: French by Marguerite Yourcenar, and are
: readily avalaible here.
:
: --Previous Message--
: Jean-Daniel,
:
: I'm glad you came back to this thread, it's
: always intriguing discovering Whittemore's
: sources for his characters and localities.
:
: As far as I know no critic has ventured into
: this area of investigation or even thought
: of it.
:
: It does require some esoteric knowledge, so
: it is amazing to think of Whittemore using
: these obscure historical figures in building
: his characters.
:
: Regarding the Rue Lepsius, I believe it was
: Cavafy's address in Alexandria and the
: ground floor was a brothel. I think
: Whittemore's use of the street name for the
: location of the Hotel Babylon (a former
: brothel too) in Cairo is a nod to both
: Durrell and Cavafy. Cavafy is referred to in
: the Alexandria Quartet as "the old poet
: of the city".
:
: It was Durrell and EM Forster who raised
: Western awareness of Cavafy's poetry in the
: 1950s/60s. I have a copy of Cavafy's
: complete poems which I purchased back in the
: late 60s, early 70s. He was trendy then, as
: was the Alexandria Quartet.
:
: I've tried to search out the source of Our
: Colly of Champagne with no success, though I
: am sure there must be some historical
: personage with similar exploits.
:
: I keenly look forward to further revelations
: from Nile Shadows and really appreciate you
: sharing your discoveries with the rest of
: us, Jean-Daniel.
:
: Anne
:
:
:

Re: the roots

Posted by Joe on June 6, 2006, 1:38 am, in reply to "Re: the roots"

Should EW ever achieve the literary status he deserves, an annotated Jerusalem Quartet would be pretty amazing. Hmm.

--Previous Message--
: Geez. A scholar could spend years unpacking
: the historical and literary nods in
: Whittemore's novels. EW's historical
: worldliness is incomparable, and his use of
: that knowledge in fiction dwarfs similar
: attempts by Pynchon and DeLillo. But they
: attain literary fame? Go figure.
:
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: Sorry for the Cairo/Alexandria mix-up.
: No luck with "Our Colly". Liffy
: sounds intriguing, too...
: It seems that Whittemore took
: "characters" (in both senses of
: the words) from real life, but adapted them
: to fit his novelistic ends, altering their
: names or the time/place they were associated
: with.
: A close reading of the texts can give some
: clues: for instance, the name of Burckhardt
: is mentioned in "Jericho Mosaic",
: with the Petra quote that is earlier
: attributed to Johann Luigi Szondi. Maybe
: another name will later on lead me to the
: "real" Colly, for instance...
: Back to work, with keyboard and magnifying
: glass.
: JD
: PS : Cavafy's poems were translated into
: French by Marguerite Yourcenar, and are
: readily avalaible here.
:
: --Previous Message--
: Jean-Daniel,
:
: I'm glad you came back to this thread, it's
: always intriguing discovering Whittemore's
: sources for his characters and localities.
:
: As far as I know no critic has ventured into
: this area of investigation or even thought
: of it.
:
: It does require some esoteric knowledge, so
: it is amazing to think of Whittemore using
: these obscure historical figures in building
: his characters.
:
: Regarding the Rue Lepsius, I believe it was
: Cavafy's address in Alexandria and the
: ground floor was a brothel. I think
: Whittemore's use of the street name for the
: location of the Hotel Babylon (a former
: brothel too) in Cairo is a nod to both
: Durrell and Cavafy. Cavafy is referred to in
: the Alexandria Quartet as "the old poet
: of the city".
:
: It was Durrell and EM Forster who raised
: Western awareness of Cavafy's poetry in the
: 1950s/60s. I have a copy of Cavafy's
: complete poems which I purchased back in the
: late 60s, early 70s. He was trendy then, as
: was the Alexandria Quartet.
:
: I've tried to search out the source of Our
: Colly of Champagne with no success, though I
: am sure there must be some historical
: personage with similar exploits.
:
: I keenly look forward to further revelations
: from Nile Shadows and really appreciate you
: sharing your discoveries with the rest of
: us, Jean-Daniel.
:
: Anne
:
:
:
:
:

Re: the roots

Posted by Jean-Daniel BREQUE on June 6, 2006, 5:30 am, in reply to "Re: the roots"

This quartet is indeed like a tapestry: try to follow a thread, and you're soon lost in the weave.
I'm doing research right now, about chapter 7 of Nile Shadows. I managed to locate the (Thomas) Mann quote (it's from "Joseph and his Brothers", vol. 1), to learn a bit more about the Athanasian Creed, and what do I find on page 121? A dreadful pun/reference to Herman Hesse.
I hope I didn't miss more puns...
JD

--Previous Message--
: Should EW ever achieve the literary status he
: deserves, an annotated Jerusalem Quartet
: would be pretty amazing. Hmm.
:
: --Previous Message--
: Geez. A scholar could spend years unpacking
: the historical and literary nods in
: Whittemore's novels. EW's historical
: worldliness is incomparable, and his use of
: that knowledge in fiction dwarfs similar
: attempts by Pynchon and DeLillo. But they
: attain literary fame? Go figure.
:

Re: the roots

Posted by Anne on June 8, 2006, 3:59 pm, in reply to "Re: the roots"

Jean-Daniel,

Are you aware that it was Athanasius (Archbishop of Alexandria) who is credited with formulating the Athanasian Creed. He was also the author of a life of St Anthony of the Desert - Wallenstein's favorite saint. Whatley, the chief of Monastery operations, also shares Skanderbeg Wallenstein's fondness for Bach's Mass in B Minor.

The monastery is also situated near St Anthony's cave.

I've been doing a bit of digging and have uncovered a few new things.

The English suffragette mentioned in Jerusalem Poker is none other than Ethel Smyth.

Also I was looking for references for the baking priest. His surname MacMael n Mbo is that of Dermait, King of Leinster who is associated with Richard “Strongbow” de Clare 2nd Earl of Pembroke, from whom Strongbow of the novels most probably draws his name.

Threads leading to threads, leading to yet more threads.

Anne

--Previous Message--
: This quartet is indeed like a tapestry: try to
: follow a thread, and you're soon lost in the
: weave.
: I'm doing research right now, about chapter
: 7 of Nile Shadows. I managed to locate the
: (Thomas) Mann quote (it's from "Joseph
: and his Brothers", vol. 1), to learn a
: bit more about the Athanasian Creed, and
: what do I find on page 121? A dreadful
: pun/reference to Herman Hesse.
: I hope I didn't miss more puns...
: JD
:
: --Previous Message--
: Should EW ever achieve the literary status
: he
: deserves, an annotated Jerusalem Quartet
: would be pretty amazing. Hmm.
:
: --Previous Message--
: Geez. A scholar could spend years unpacking
: the historical and literary nods in
: Whittemore's novels. EW's historical
: worldliness is incomparable, and his use of
: that knowledge in fiction dwarfs similar
: attempts by Pynchon and DeLillo. But they
: attain literary fame? Go figure.
:
:
:

Re: the roots

Posted by Anne on June 6, 2006, 8:01 pm, in reply to "Re: the roots"

Amazing indeed. I always felt when reading the novels that there was a mystery to unravel. You know it's there but you don't know what it is.

No doubt, as Jean-Daniel is doing, a scrupulous scan of every reference in the novels to anything obscure will unravel some of the threads.

But one would have to be as well read as Whittemore to get all the meanings contained therein.

Indeed, an annoted Whittemore would be excellent, but who would do it?

I have always intended to create a page detailing all the sources, but it seems a huge job and time consuming to boot.

If I make a start it will at least be a beginning, but time is the problem.

Anne

Re: the roots

Posted by Jean-Daniel BREQUE on June 8, 2006, 3:55 pm, in reply to "Re: the roots"

Anne,
First step could be a "Who's Who" of the Quartet: a list of historical or literary characters who appeare or are alluded to in the text, to wit: Sir Richard Burton (a source for Plantagenet Strongbow), the real White Monk of Timbuktu, the O'Sullivan Beare clan, the Wallenstein...
Plus, there is the chronology I sent you, which I'm adding to as I translate Nile Shadows.
JD

--Previous Message--
: Amazing indeed. I always felt when reading the
: novels that there was a mystery to unravel.
: You know it's there but you don't know what
: it is.
:
: No doubt, as Jean-Daniel is doing, a
: scrupulous scan of every reference in the
: novels to anything obscure will unravel some
: of the threads.
:
: But one would have to be as well read as
: Whittemore to get all the meanings contained
: therein.
:
: Indeed, an annoted Whittemore would be
: excellent, but who would do it?
:
: I have always intended to create a page
: detailing all the sources, but it seems a
: huge job and time consuming to boot.
:
: If I make a start it will at least be a
: beginning, but time is the problem.
:
: Anne
:

Re: the roots

Posted by Anne on June 8, 2006, 4:06 pm, in reply to "Re: the roots"

Jean Daniel,

You must have been writing your message below as I was writing a reply to one of your earlier posts.

I have started thinking about how to go about presenting this information. Last time I read the books (the first three) I decided to keep notes and look up the references later.

I've been doing this the past few days.

Your idea of a who's who could be the way to go.
But first to get it all down, book by book.

Anne

--Previous Message--
: Anne,
: First step could be a "Who's Who"
: of the Quartet: a list of historical or
: literary characters who appeare or are
: alluded to in the text, to wit: Sir Richard
: Burton (a source for Plantagenet Strongbow),
: the real White Monk of Timbuktu, the
: O'Sullivan Beare clan, the Wallenstein...
: Plus, there is the chronology I sent you,
: which I'm adding to as I translate Nile
: Shadows.
: JD
:
: --Previous Message--
: Amazing indeed. I always felt when reading
: the
: novels that there was a mystery to unravel.
: You know it's there but you don't know what
: it is.
:
: No doubt, as Jean-Daniel is doing, a
: scrupulous scan of every reference in the
: novels to anything obscure will unravel some
: of the threads.
:
: But one would have to be as well read as
: Whittemore to get all the meanings contained
: therein.
:
: Indeed, an annoted Whittemore would be
: excellent, but who would do it?
:
: I have always intended to create a page
: detailing all the sources, but it seems a
: huge job and time consuming to boot.
:
: If I make a start it will at least be a
: beginning, but time is the problem.
:
: Anne
:
:
:

Re: the roots

Posted by Beged Ivri <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/edwhit2001/info/user=Beged+Ivri' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 31, 2007, 11:50 am, in reply to "Re: the roots"

Shalom Chevre,

It goes deeper than all of you have imagined. Haj Harun...He was/is real...I have a picture of him.

--Previous Message--
: Jean Daniel,
:
: You must have been writing your message
: below as I was writing a reply to one of
: your earlier posts.
:
: I have started thinking about how to go
: about presenting this information. Last time
: I read the books (the first three) I decided
: to keep notes and look up the references
: later.
:
: I've been doing this the past few days.
:
: Your idea of a who's who could be the way to
: go.
: But first to get it all down, book by book.
:
: Anne
:
: --Previous Message--
: Anne,
: First step could be a "Who's Who"
: of the Quartet: a list of historical or
: literary characters who appeare or are
: alluded to in the text, to wit: Sir Richard
: Burton (a source for Plantagenet Strongbow),
: the real White Monk of Timbuktu, the
: O'Sullivan Beare clan, the Wallenstein...
: Plus, there is the chronology I sent you,
: which I'm adding to as I translate Nile
: Shadows.
: JD
:
: --Previous Message--
: Amazing indeed. I always felt when reading
: the
: novels that there was a mystery to unravel.
: You know it's there but you don't know what
: it is.
:
: No doubt, as Jean-Daniel is doing, a
: scrupulous scan of every reference in the
: novels to anything obscure will unravel some
: of the threads.
:
: But one would have to be as well read as
: Whittemore to get all the meanings contained
: therein.
:
: Indeed, an annoted Whittemore would be
: excellent, but who would do it?
:
: I have always intended to create a page
: detailing all the sources, but it seems a
: huge job and time consuming to boot.
:
: If I make a start it will at least be a
: beginning, but time is the problem.
:
: Anne
:
:
:
:
:

Re: the roots

Posted by Anne <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/edwhit2001/info/user=Anne' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 31, 2007, 12:16 pm, in reply to "Re: the roots"

Beged,

Really? How fascinating. Please expand on this, and could you please send me a copy of the picture to the email address above or to dreaming@jerusalemdreaming.info

PS: Welcome to the message board - glad to have you join the discussion.

Anne

--Previous Message--
: Shalom Chevre,
:
: It goes deeper than all of you have
: imagined. Haj Harun...He was/is real...I
: have a picture of him.
:
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: Jean Daniel,
:
: You must have been writing your message
: below as I was writing a reply to one of
: your earlier posts.
:
: I have started thinking about how to go
: about presenting this information. Last time
: I read the books (the first three) I decided
: to keep notes and look up the references
: later.
:
: I've been doing this the past few days.
:
: Your idea of a who's who could be the way to
: go.
: But first to get it all down, book by book.
:
: Anne
:
: --Previous Message--
: Anne,
: First step could be a "Who's Who"
: of the Quartet: a list of historical or
: literary characters who appeare or are
: alluded to in the text, to wit: Sir Richard
: Burton (a source for Plantagenet Strongbow),
: the real White Monk of Timbuktu, the
: O'Sullivan Beare clan, the Wallenstein...
: Plus, there is the chronology I sent you,
: which I'm adding to as I translate Nile
: Shadows.
: JD
:
: --Previous Message--
: Amazing indeed. I always felt when reading
: the
: novels that there was a mystery to unravel.
: You know it's there but you don't know what
: it is.
:
: No doubt, as Jean-Daniel is doing, a
: scrupulous scan of every reference in the
: novels to anything obscure will unravel some
: of the threads.
:
: But one would have to be as well read as
: Whittemore to get all the meanings contained
: therein.
:
: Indeed, an annoted Whittemore would be
: excellent, but who would do it?
:
: I have always intended to create a page
: detailing all the sources, but it seems a
: huge job and time consuming to boot.
:
: If I make a start it will at least be a
: beginning, but time is the problem.
:
: Anne
:
:
:
:
:
:
:

Re: the roots

Please see my posting Shalom from Jerusalem! for more info and I'll send you the photo after Sep 10th upon my return to Jerusalem! How do I send it? An email to...?

--Previous Message--
: Beged,
:
: Really? How fascinating. Please expand on
: this, and could you please send me a copy of
: the picture to the email address above or to
: dreaming@jerusalemdreaming.info
:
: PS: Welcome to the message board - glad to
: have you join the discussion.
:
: Anne
:
: --Previous Message--
: Shalom Chevre,
:
: It goes deeper than all of you have
: imagined. Haj Harun...He was/is real...I
: have a picture of him.
:
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: Jean Daniel,
:
: You must have been writing your message
: below as I was writing a reply to one of
: your earlier posts.
:
: I have started thinking about how to go
: about presenting this information. Last time
: I read the books (the first three) I decided
: to keep notes and look up the references
: later.
:
: I've been doing this the past few days.
:
: Your idea of a who's who could be the way to
: go.
: But first to get it all down, book by book.
:
: Anne
:
: --Previous Message--
: Anne,
: First step could be a "Who's Who"
: of the Quartet: a list of historical or
: literary characters who appeare or are
: alluded to in the text, to wit: Sir Richard
: Burton (a source for Plantagenet Strongbow),
: the real White Monk of Timbuktu, the
: O'Sullivan Beare clan, the Wallenstein...
: Plus, there is the chronology I sent you,
: which I'm adding to as I translate Nile
: Shadows.
: JD
:
: --Previous Message--
: Amazing indeed. I always felt when reading
: the
: novels that there was a mystery to unravel.
: You know it's there but you don't know what
: it is.
:
: No doubt, as Jean-Daniel is doing, a
: scrupulous scan of every reference in the
: novels to anything obscure will unravel some
: of the threads.
:
: But one would have to be as well read as
: Whittemore to get all the meanings contained
: therein.
:
: Indeed, an annoted Whittemore would be
: excellent, but who would do it?
:
: I have always intended to create a page
: detailing all the sources, but it seems a
: huge job and time consuming to boot.
:
: If I make a start it will at least be a
: beginning, but time is the problem.
:
: Anne
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:

Re: the roots

Posted by Anne <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/edwhit2001/info/user=Anne' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 31, 2007, 1:08 pm, in reply to "Re: the roots"

You can click on my name above or see my previous message below for the contact email address for this site. I look forward to seeing it.

Anne

--Previous Message--
: Please see my posting Shalom from Jerusalem!
: for more info and I'll send you the photo
: after Sep 10th upon my return to Jerusalem!
: How do I send it? An email to...?
:
: --Previous Message--
: Beged,
:
: Really? How fascinating. Please expand on
: this, and could you please send me a copy of
: the picture to the email address above or to
: dreaming@jerusalemdreaming.info
:
: PS: Welcome to the message board - glad to
: have you join the discussion.
:
: Anne
:
: --Previous Message--
: Shalom Chevre,
:
: It goes deeper than all of you have
: imagined. Haj Harun...He was/is real...I
: have a picture of him.
:
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: Jean Daniel,
:
: You must have been writing your message
: below as I was writing a reply to one of
: your earlier posts.
:
: I have started thinking about how to go
: about presenting this information. Last time
: I read the books (the first three) I decided
: to keep notes and look up the references
: later.
:
: I've been doing this the past few days.
:
: Your idea of a who's who could be the way to
: go.
: But first to get it all down, book by book.
:
: Anne
:
: --Previous Message--
: Anne,
: First step could be a "Who's Who"
: of the Quartet: a list of historical or
: literary characters who appeare or are
: alluded to in the text, to wit: Sir Richard
: Burton (a source for Plantagenet Strongbow),
: the real White Monk of Timbuktu, the
: O'Sullivan Beare clan, the Wallenstein...
: Plus, there is the chronology I sent you,
: which I'm adding to as I translate Nile
: Shadows.
: JD
:
: --Previous Message--
: Amazing indeed. I always felt when reading
: the
: novels that there was a mystery to unravel.
: You know it's there but you don't know what
: it is.
:
: No doubt, as Jean-Daniel is doing, a
: scrupulous scan of every reference in the
: novels to anything obscure will unravel some
: of the threads.
:
: But one would have to be as well read as
: Whittemore to get all the meanings contained
: therein.
:
: Indeed, an annoted Whittemore would be
: excellent, but who would do it?
:
: I have always intended to create a page
: detailing all the sources, but it seems a
: huge job and time consuming to boot.
:
: If I make a start it will at least be a
: beginning, but time is the problem.
:
: Anne
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:

Re: the roots

Got it. Thank you.

--Previous Message--
: You can click on my name above or see my
: previous message below for the contact email
: address for this site. I look forward to
: seeing it.
:
: Anne
:
: --Previous Message--
: Please see my posting Shalom from Jerusalem!
: for more info and I'll send you the photo
: after Sep 10th upon my return to Jerusalem!
: How do I send it? An email to...?
:
: --Previous Message--
: Beged,
:
: Really? How fascinating. Please expand on
: this, and could you please send me a copy of
: the picture to the email address above or to
: dreaming@jerusalemdreaming.info
:
: PS: Welcome to the message board - glad to
: have you join the discussion.
:
: Anne
:
: --Previous Message--
: Shalom Chevre,
:
: It goes deeper than all of you have
: imagined. Haj Harun...He was/is real...I
: have a picture of him.
:
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: Jean Daniel,
:
: You must have been writing your message
: below as I was writing a reply to one of
: your earlier posts.
:
: I have started thinking about how to go
: about presenting this information. Last time
: I read the books (the first three) I decided
: to keep notes and look up the references
: later.
:
: I've been doing this the past few days.
:
: Your idea of a who's who could be the way to
: go.
: But first to get it all down, book by book.
:
: Anne
:
: --Previous Message--
: Anne,
: First step could be a "Who's Who"
: of the Quartet: a list of historical or
: literary characters who appeare or are
: alluded to in the text, to wit: Sir Richard
: Burton (a source for Plantagenet Strongbow),
: the real White Monk of Timbuktu, the
: O'Sullivan Beare clan, the Wallenstein...
: Plus, there is the chronology I sent you,
: which I'm adding to as I translate Nile
: Shadows.
: JD
:
: --Previous Message--
: Amazing indeed. I always felt when reading
: the
: novels that there was a mystery to unravel.
: You know it's there but you don't know what
: it is.
:
: No doubt, as Jean-Daniel is doing, a
: scrupulous scan of every reference in the
: novels to anything obscure will unravel some
: of the threads.
:
: But one would have to be as well read as
: Whittemore to get all the meanings contained
: therein.
:
: Indeed, an annoted Whittemore would be
: excellent, but who would do it?
:
: I have always intended to create a page
: detailing all the sources, but it seems a
: huge job and time consuming to boot.
:
: If I make a start it will at least be a
: beginning, but time is the problem.
:
: Anne
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:

Re: the roots

Posted by Joe <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/edwhit2001/info/user=Joe' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 14, 2007, 4:36 am, in reply to "Re: the roots"

No. I suspected that Haj Harun might have been created in the image of someone Whittemore knew.

--Previous Message--
: Got it. Thank you.
:
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: You can click on my name above or see my
: previous message below for the contact email
: address for this site. I look forward to
: seeing it.
:
: Anne
:
: --Previous Message--
: Please see my posting Shalom from Jerusalem!
: for more info and I'll send you the photo
: after Sep 10th upon my return to Jerusalem!
: How do I send it? An email to...?
:
: --Previous Message--
: Beged,
:
: Really? How fascinating. Please expand on
: this, and could you please send me a copy of
: the picture to the email address above or to
: dreaming@jerusalemdreaming.info
:
: PS: Welcome to the message board - glad to
: have you join the discussion.
:
: Anne
:
: --Previous Message--
: Shalom Chevre,
:
: It goes deeper than all of you have
: imagined. Haj Harun...He was/is real...I
: have a picture of him.
:
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: Jean Daniel,
:
: You must have been writing your message
: below as I was writing a reply to one of
: your earlier posts.
:
: I have started thinking about how to go
: about presenting this information. Last time
: I read the books (the first three) I decided
: to keep notes and look up the references
: later.
:
: I've been doing this the past few days.
:
: Your idea of a who's who could be the way to
: go.
: But first to get it all down, book by book.
:
: Anne
:
: --Previous Message--
: Anne,
: First step could be a "Who's Who"
: of the Quartet: a list of historical or
: literary characters who appeare or are
: alluded to in the text, to wit: Sir Richard
: Burton (a source for Plantagenet Strongbow),
: the real White Monk of Timbuktu, the
: O'Sullivan Beare clan, the Wallenstein...
: Plus, there is the chronology I sent you,
: which I'm adding to as I translate Nile
: Shadows.
: JD
:
: --Previous Message--
: Amazing indeed. I always felt when reading
: the
: novels that there was a mystery to unravel.
: You know it's there but you don't know what
: it is.
:
: No doubt, as Jean-Daniel is doing, a
: scrupulous scan of every reference in the
: novels to anything obscure will unravel some
: of the threads.
:
: But one would have to be as well read as
: Whittemore to get all the meanings contained
: therein.
:
: Indeed, an annoted Whittemore would be
: excellent, but who would do it?
:
: I have always intended to create a page
: detailing all the sources, but it seems a
: huge job and time consuming to boot.
:
: If I make a start it will at least be a
: beginning, but time is the problem.
:
: Anne
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:

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