Hardy Palm and Subtropical Board

Hardy Palm and Subtropical Board
[ Hardy Palm and Subtropical Board ]

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Observations on Trachys :

Posted by WSimpson NC <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=WSimpson+NC' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/18/2019, 12:42 pm

This is a palm at one of my favorite Mexican Restaurants . Here it is on 10/20/2017 :

It was whacked back to get it off the building and or away from the handicap sign in the winter of 2018 . It should've been selectively pruned . I took a picture of it on 4/13/2018 .
.

It grew out well over the season and here it is on October 8th , 2018 :
.

Here it is from yesterday :
.

What I noticed was that it didn't have any inflorescences on it this spring after flowering the 2 previous springs . This leads me to believe that Trachys put all their energy into new fronds before being ready to flower again . They also don't trunk at all until they have a pretty full crown back . So this palm was stalled out for an entire year because of some crazy landscaper . Be careful if you defiber too . I have stunted my share of Trachys from defibering petiole bases that were not mature enough to be defibered . Only defiber truly dead and dry petiole bases .
Just hoping people don't fall into some of the traps I did when I wanted the instant gratification of a totally defibered Trachy , or when I pruned a Trachy way more than I should have . You will pay the price over the long run .
If they prune again like they did in the past it may never get much taller .
Other palms may have similar growth habits as Trachys .
Will

Winston-Salem
Ten year lows: 20F 5F 4F 15F 7F 8F 14F 19F 16F 16F(2022)
10 Year Average Winter Lowest Low 12.4F ; 30 Year 12.3F
Profession:Trachy Defiberer and Palm Spear Puller (free estimates)

Re: Observations on Trachys :

Posted by Steve in N Alabama z7b <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Steve+in+N+Alabama+z7b' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/18/2019, 8:55 pm, in reply to "Observations on Trachys :"

I think they removed most of the leaves to make the handicapped sign more visible. The sign should have been placed much closer to the walkway.

Re: Observations on Trachys :

Posted by WSimpson NC <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=WSimpson+NC' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/19/2019, 8:24 am, in reply to "Re: Observations on Trachys :"

They may have wanted to get it off the building too for fear of insects . If they keep whacking it back it will never get above that sign . A little selective pruning of individual fronds might have been the best solution . That landscape worker probably had never pruned a palm before and he pruned it to look about as ugly as someone could possibly make it look

.
Thanks ,
Will

Winston-Salem
Ten year lows: 20F 5F 4F 15F 7F 8F 14F 19F 16F 16F(2022)
10 Year Average Winter Lowest Low 12.4F ; 30 Year 12.3F
Profession:Trachy Defiberer and Palm Spear Puller (free estimates)

Could Explain My "Bonsai" Trachy

Posted by Jim Wilmington DE 7a <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Jim+Wilmington+DE+7a' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/19/2019, 10:00 am, in reply to "Observations on Trachys :"

My Trachy's been in the ground from a 1-gallon sized plant since 2007. In all that time, it's never flowered. My Needles flower every year, and my Minors 2 out of every 3 years. Further, the trunk, from soil surface to the bottom of the spears is less than 3 feet tall.

All of this seems to support your theories on trunk growth and flowering.

My winters are harder than yours. My Trachy just barely hangs on. It most often limps out of winter. This year, everything got fried on it except the spear and the youngest frond. And that's kind of typical. Winter low of 4F.

I love that my palm is a survivor, a real trooper in a true 7a location. But, when it comes at the cost of defoliation most springs, it hardly seems worth it.

Jim, Wilmington, DE, 7a
Last 30 Years Avg. Winter Low: 7.50F
Last 20 Years Avg. Winter Low: 8.35F
Last 10 Years Avg. Winter Low: 8.40F
Favorite Palms: Species: Phoenix Canariensis / Genus: Sabal

Re: Could Explain My "Bonsai" Trachy

Posted by WSimpson NC <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=WSimpson+NC' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/20/2019, 8:43 pm, in reply to "Could Explain My "Bonsai" Trachy"

Interesting story about your Trachy Jim .
What if you protected it now that it is small , for a couple years , and see if it gains a little hardiness and gets over the hump as far as growth goes ? Making a box out of pine needle bales around it with a waterproof cover and an inserted incandescent light inside turned on during the worst cold might be enough . Then you'd have pine needles to spread around when the worst is over and keep the weeds down

.
Do you have a picture of it ?
Will

Winston-Salem
Ten year lows: 20F 5F 4F 15F 7F 8F 14F 19F 16F 16F(2022)
10 Year Average Winter Lowest Low 12.4F ; 30 Year 12.3F
Profession:Trachy Defiberer and Palm Spear Puller (free estimates)

Here lies my weakness

Posted by Tommy Nashville-Miami <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Tommy+Nashville-Miami' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/21/2019, 9:26 pm, in reply to "Observations on Trachys :"

I actually prefer it in the 3rd and 4th picture much more than the 1st. It just looks so much more like a palm tree. I don't prune green off mine anymore but I used to be The Worst. I would prune as many as 20-25 green fronds of Trachys (when I first started all this) to make them look like they had a P. dactylifera-type of majesty. I know-crazy. I prefer a full crown now but I honestly don't like fronds all the way to the ground on Trachys.

"Oh, Dixie Land, I hope you understand
When I miss my Tennessee Home
And I've been away way too long
I can't see this world unless I go
Outside my Southern Comfort Zone"- Brad Paisley

Re: Observations on Trachys :

Posted by Rob Cookeville Tn <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Rob+Cookeville+Tn' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/21/2019, 10:07 pm, in reply to "Re: Observations on Trachys :"

Hopefully it will outgrow the sign. Thanks for posting this Will.

part of this community for 28 years

Rob Cookeville Tn since (2013)
Robz7a Cumberland Plateau (2000-2013)
Rob z6b TN (1996-2000)

I prefer a full crown now but I honestly don't like fronds all the way to the ground on Trachys.

I prefer a full crown now but I honestly don't like fronds all the way to the ground on Trachys.

You do know thats a sign of a healthy tree in a favorable climate for it but I agree, I dont like that either. I even trimmed my Little Gem dwarf Southern Magnolias lower branches that Ken Williford gave me many years ago.
Its beautiful now. Has about 8 feet of clear trunk then the crown flushes out

from its height of 25'

part of this community for 28 years

Rob Cookeville Tn since (2013)
Robz7a Cumberland Plateau (2000-2013)
Rob z6b TN (1996-2000)

Re: Observations on Trachys :

Posted by WSimpson NC <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=WSimpson+NC' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/22/2019, 3:08 pm, in reply to "Re: Observations on Trachys :"

Thanks Rob .
I know the manager and told him to watch the landscapers and keep them from ruining it again .
Will

Winston-Salem
Ten year lows: 20F 5F 4F 15F 7F 8F 14F 19F 16F 16F(2022)
10 Year Average Winter Lowest Low 12.4F ; 30 Year 12.3F
Profession:Trachy Defiberer and Palm Spear Puller (free estimates)

Re: Here lies my weakness

Posted by WSimpson NC <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=WSimpson+NC' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/22/2019, 3:09 pm, in reply to "Here lies my weakness"

I was bad too about pruning and defibering too much . I really stunted them , and even killed some

.
Will

Winston-Salem
Ten year lows: 20F 5F 4F 15F 7F 8F 14F 19F 16F 16F(2022)
10 Year Average Winter Lowest Low 12.4F ; 30 Year 12.3F
Profession:Trachy Defiberer and Palm Spear Puller (free estimates)

Re: I prefer a full crown now but I honestly don't like fronds all the way to the ground on Trachys.

Posted by WSimpson NC <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=WSimpson+NC' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/22/2019, 3:13 pm, in reply to "I prefer a full crown now but I honestly don't like fronds all the way to the ground on Trachys."

I was the worst at pruning and defibering too much . I've learned to be patient if I want them to really be healthy and trunk up good .
Thanks ,
Will

Winston-Salem
Ten year lows: 20F 5F 4F 15F 7F 8F 14F 19F 16F 16F(2022)
10 Year Average Winter Lowest Low 12.4F ; 30 Year 12.3F
Profession:Trachy Defiberer and Palm Spear Puller (free estimates)

Re: Here lies my weakness

Posted by Tommy Nashville-Miami <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Tommy+Nashville-Miami' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/23/2019, 12:08 am, in reply to "Re: Here lies my weakness"

I've never defibered but I do trim the fiber with scissors so it looks clean.

"Oh, Dixie Land, I hope you understand
When I miss my Tennessee Home
And I've been away way too long
I can't see this world unless I go
Outside my Southern Comfort Zone"- Brad Paisley

Re: I prefer a full crown now but I honestly don't like fronds all the way to the ground on Trachys.

Posted by Tommy Nashville-Miami <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Tommy+Nashville-Miami' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/23/2019, 12:10 am, in reply to "I prefer a full crown now but I honestly don't like fronds all the way to the ground on Trachys."

Do you know how Ken is doing Rob? I haven't heard from him in years.

"Oh, Dixie Land, I hope you understand
When I miss my Tennessee Home
And I've been away way too long
I can't see this world unless I go
Outside my Southern Comfort Zone"- Brad Paisley

Re: I prefer a full crown now but I honestly don't like fronds all the way to the ground on Trachys.

Posted by Tommy Nashville-Miami <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Tommy+Nashville-Miami' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/23/2019, 12:13 am, in reply to "Re: I prefer a full crown now but I honestly don't like fronds all the way to the ground on Trachys."

I wonder what the effect is on minors. I have two that are getting large between two driveways that I have to keep trimmed so they don't brush the neighbor's cars as they drive in.

"Oh, Dixie Land, I hope you understand
When I miss my Tennessee Home
And I've been away way too long
I can't see this world unless I go
Outside my Southern Comfort Zone"- Brad Paisley

Re: Could Explain My "Bonsai" Trachy

Posted by Jim Wilmington DE 7a <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Jim+Wilmington+DE+7a' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/23/2019, 1:55 pm, in reply to "Re: Could Explain My "Bonsai" Trachy"

Actually, Will, I protected it with what I'd call moderate to heavy protection (but without adding an artificial heat source) until this most recent winter. Even though it's still small, the tree had grown enough that the fronds stuck so far out of the enclosure that I left the top of the structure off most of the winter, but covering it only in extreme events with clear plastic.

I am not the first person in this online plant community to have wondered out loud if protection schemes actually do more harm than good. I think the issue with enclosures is temperature management. Not letting the inside get too warm so that you have a temperature roller coaster happening. Also, air exchange. You can't let the same air sit in the enclosure. I thought I had a pretty good handle on both issues, yet the tree still took it on the chin whenever we had true 7a lows, which is most of the time, nowadays. Last year was worse. A year ago, there was no green & full spear pull. This year, 1 green frond and a healthy, growing spear. With less protection.

The only palms I don't do much for outside of ground mulch are my Needles and a Sabal Birmingham. They make out well most years. Trachies are definitely less cold tolerant.

Jim, Wilmington, DE, 7a
Last 30 Years Avg. Winter Low: 7.50F
Last 20 Years Avg. Winter Low: 8.35F
Last 10 Years Avg. Winter Low: 8.40F
Favorite Palms: Species: Phoenix Canariensis / Genus: Sabal

Re: Here lies my weakness

Posted by Jim Wilmington DE 7a <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Jim+Wilmington+DE+7a' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/23/2019, 1:59 pm, in reply to "Here lies my weakness"

>> I honestly don't like fronds all the way to the ground on Trachys. <<

In total agreement.

If you go through all the trouble to grow palms out of zone, isn't the least they could do is LOOK like palms?

Jim, Wilmington, DE, 7a
Last 30 Years Avg. Winter Low: 7.50F
Last 20 Years Avg. Winter Low: 8.35F
Last 10 Years Avg. Winter Low: 8.40F
Favorite Palms: Species: Phoenix Canariensis / Genus: Sabal

Re: I prefer a full crown now but I honestly don't like fronds all the way to the ground on Trachys.

Posted by WSimpson NC <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=WSimpson+NC' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/23/2019, 10:20 pm, in reply to "Re: I prefer a full crown now but I honestly don't like fronds all the way to the ground on Trachys."

Sounds like they would look good on your side of the driveway at least , unlike what that landscaper did at that Mexican restaurant .
Will

Winston-Salem
Ten year lows: 20F 5F 4F 15F 7F 8F 14F 19F 16F 16F(2022)
10 Year Average Winter Lowest Low 12.4F ; 30 Year 12.3F
Profession:Trachy Defiberer and Palm Spear Puller (free estimates)

Re: Here lies my weakness

Posted by Tommy Nashville-Miami <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Tommy+Nashville-Miami' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/27/2019, 1:08 am, in reply to "Re: Here lies my weakness"

This might be another unpopular opinion of mine but while I'm at it: I don't like when Trachy trunks get so tall and skinny. I'd almost prefer the palm to stay at a lower height and keep a thicker trunk.

"Oh, Dixie Land, I hope you understand
When I miss my Tennessee Home
And I've been away way too long
I can't see this world unless I go
Outside my Southern Comfort Zone"- Brad Paisley

Re: I prefer a full crown now but I honestly don't like fronds all the way to the ground on Trachys.

Posted by Tommy Nashville-Miami <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Tommy+Nashville-Miami' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/27/2019, 1:09 am, in reply to "Re: I prefer a full crown now but I honestly don't like fronds all the way to the ground on Trachys."

Yes, they look better on my side. The neighbors don't mind as technically, the strip is mine and they love them but I don't want the neighbors ever to have a reason to not like them.

"Oh, Dixie Land, I hope you understand
When I miss my Tennessee Home
And I've been away way too long
I can't see this world unless I go
Outside my Southern Comfort Zone"- Brad Paisley

Re: Could Explain My "Bonsai" Trachy

Posted by Tommy Nashville-Miami <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Tommy+Nashville-Miami' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/27/2019, 1:14 am, in reply to "Re: Could Explain My "Bonsai" Trachy"

Agreement on wondering about protection schemes. I always went the no protection route until the vortex winters came and I wanted to preserve green on some small windmills. Every windmill I protected died. Every windmill I left alone survived. I never tried protecting again. I know it's necessary on many palms in many areas but I had no success with it and I'm convinced my protection killed those windmills.

"Oh, Dixie Land, I hope you understand
When I miss my Tennessee Home
And I've been away way too long
I can't see this world unless I go
Outside my Southern Comfort Zone"- Brad Paisley

Re: Here lies my weakness

Posted by WSimpson NC <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=WSimpson+NC' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/27/2019, 1:09 pm, in reply to "Here lies my weakness"

I know what you mean but I was going to let it keep on trunking fast before eventually pruning it up from the bottom and pruning off less than perfect fronds .
Thanks ,
Will

Winston-Salem
Ten year lows: 20F 5F 4F 15F 7F 8F 14F 19F 16F 16F(2022)
10 Year Average Winter Lowest Low 12.4F ; 30 Year 12.3F
Profession:Trachy Defiberer and Palm Spear Puller (free estimates)

Re: Here lies my weakness

Posted by Jim Wilmington DE 7a <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Jim+Wilmington+DE+7a' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 4/30/2019, 9:44 am, in reply to "Re: Here lies my weakness"

Totally agree.

Trachies are a weird tree. When they're young, and want to have green fronds all up and down the trunk, that may be great for the tree itself, but it just doesn't look like a palm. And yes, when they get older and tall, they look like a pipe cleaner with a tiny tuft of fronds at the top. They look their best in I guess what could be called their late puberty to early adulthood.

I've seen some old Trachies where the trunk is so thin (especially at the bottom) that it defies physics why it doesn't snap off in the first moderate breeze. Not coincidentally, I love CIDPs and Washy Filiferas -- palms with thick, robust trunks.

Jim, Wilmington, DE, 7a
Last 30 Years Avg. Winter Low: 7.50F
Last 20 Years Avg. Winter Low: 8.35F
Last 10 Years Avg. Winter Low: 8.40F
Favorite Palms: Species: Phoenix Canariensis / Genus: Sabal

Re: Here lies my weakness

Posted by Tommy Nashville-Miami <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Tommy+Nashville-Miami' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 5/1/2019, 4:22 am, in reply to "Re: Here lies my weakness"

Definitely. I took a couple pictures of trachies years ago in Las Vegas that I'll have to post that fit this exact description. Lol.

"Oh, Dixie Land, I hope you understand
When I miss my Tennessee Home
And I've been away way too long
I can't see this world unless I go
Outside my Southern Comfort Zone"- Brad Paisley

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