Yours Sincerely, Jim Reeves/Blue Side Of Lonesome/A Touch Of Sadness/On Stage
Posted by Dave Cole on September 3, 2016, 3:34 pm
Hi Larry, hi all: The upcoming release of Yours Sincerely, Jim Reeves/Blue Side Of Lonesome/A Touch Of Sadness/On Stage to be released on September 16, 2016: Am I correct in assumimg this is just another rip off with the source recording being from a 'cleaned up' vinyl LP? I am guessing these are now out of copyright and any Tom, Dick or Harry can make their own CD's and sell them with little or no real money spent? That would be a rip off if so... Rant over!
Regards,
Dave Yateley United Kingdom
Re: Yours Sincerely, Jim Reeves/Blue Side Of Lonesome/A Touch Of Sadness/On Stage
Having dealt with BMG and Sony I am not optimistic that original master tapes were even located, let alone made available for these compilation CDs. Typically they just take vinyl -- and not even good copies -- and use that as source material, though labels often lie about that. Anyone who has listened to Jim for as long as I have can easily discern what sounds right and what is not.
On the other hand, there have been CDs I know were sourced from at least copies of the 3 track masters, because they have been so hideously remixed so that Jim's intimacy has been lost and the Anita Kerr singers sound like they are the stars -- or the instrumentation -- and Jim was just an afterthought.
The economics of the music business do NOT support cheap CDs of good quality. I see 4 CD sets or even larger sets going for a few dollars and I know when I see that that the releasing labels have NOT paid the licensing fees, so they truly ARE bootlegs in the literal, legal sense. Nor can you manufacture multiple CDs in one set, pay good mastering and restoration engineers, to say nothing of the other people that should be involved in such projects, release it, ship it, wholesale it, have the reseller make a profit, the online sales platform take their commission, and end up with anything decent.
It's a cynical marketing strategy that many labels are employing because they know they can sell product to the fans of big artists regardless of the quality. They don't care how rotten it is; they mass produce this stuff, don't pay the licensing fees, and rely on a CHEAP PRICE to make the sale.
And there are just enough suckers out there who are foolish enough to buy these products based solely on price.
Re: Yours Sincerely, Jim Reeves/Blue Side Of Lonesome/A Touch Of Sadness/On Stage
I was happy to see these LP's being released on BGO because this label has done a beautiful job on previous CD's that I've purchased on Glen Campbell,Bobby Goldsboro and Jay and the Americans. I don't know if these were taken from first generation master tapes or not, but they certainly don't sound like cheap copies from a vinyl record. They couldn't sound better, in my opinion. This is the first time they've released anything on Jim, and I was glad to see that they were being released on this label.
Re: Yours Sincerely, Jim Reeves/Blue Side Of Lonesome/A Touch Of Sadness/On Stage
Andy Gray, owner and manager of BGO, confirmed by email that the new release was sourced from the original master tapes provided to them by Sony Music. So, I think one thing you can rest assured is that this release is not a "rip off."
Re: Yours Sincerely, Jim Reeves/Blue Side Of Lonesome/A Touch Of Sadness/On Stage
Parse what Mr. Gray said. He said the release was "sourced from the original master tapes supplied to them by Sony Music."
Based on that statement, I do NOT believe fans should "rest assured."
BGO is NOT going back to the multitrack and original demos, cleaning up those tracks, and remixing -- because Sony wouldn't allow it, it would be cost prohibitive, and Sony may not even have retained all this source material.
I've heard too many Sony releases that sounded terrible, and I'm not joking when I say the company is clueless about Reeves. When I did some work with them they were wholly ignorant about Jim's catalog.
What Mr. Gray received was music that he leased from Sony, and that he had NO HAND IN MIXING. What he got would have been digital copies of the "mixdown tapes" where the final released mixes are kept. The session reels are something completely different. He did not have access to them, although I believe Richard Weize of Bear did have many years ago, in some cases at least.
Sony merely sent BGO the mixed down audio files OR may have actually done the manufacturing, which happens in a lot of cases. Sony DADC is a division of this giant multi-national corporation that actually manufactures CDs for other labels. They had plants around the world, including in New Jersey (which closed in 2011), Indiana and Toronto (closed in 2011) and Mexico City (closed in 2015).
BGO is one of a plethora of labels that take old catalog and re-release it in assembly line fashion. They aren't taking hundreds of hours or spending thousands of dollars to IMPROVE the product; they take what they get from Sony, though they probably do some tweaking around the edges. The improvements will be marginal at best.
Yes, they can remaster it. But lacking access to the original components that comprised the 1970s RCA overdubs -- the individual tracks -- they are not going to be able to do much to correct many of the problems that existed on the original albums.
For instance, you'd need access to the original demo tape of "Lonesome Waltz" like we did, in order to get rid of as much of the fogginess that existed before RCA added more instruments. (In our case, we started over and built a new overdub arrangement around a cleaned-up demo tape).
The same is true of the "On Stage" material. I have the box of tape that Jim was sent by the Pennsylvania engineer who recorded his concert that night. There is a note attached in Jim's handwriting, along with a letter to Reeves from the man. So when I released this concert on the H&H/VoiceMasters 2 CD set, "There's Someone Who Loves You," we were able to present it the way people in the audience heard the concert that night -- WITHOUT the add-on studio instruments that RCA inexplicably applied when they put a highly edited version of this concert out on LP years ago. They also could not use the final song, "An Evening Prayer," because it had started to rain and the engineer tried to shield the recorder but accidentally bumped the reels of tape as they were turning in the machine. This resulted in a speed up and slow down of the audio. RCA apparently lacked either the technology or motivation to correct the tape speed variations; however, VoiceMasters DID correct this and thus salvaged the song.
What you will be getting on the BGO release is the RCA doctored-up version of that concert in stereo though it was recorded in mono. Even Leo Jackson, who played on the overdub, thought it was one of the stupidest things RCA ever did.
Sony is currently frightened of being sued by artists' estates if anyone remixes tracks. This is after an attempt was made to create a stereo mix of Donovan's "Mellow Yellow" a few years back. He didn't like it and forbade them from allowing it to be released (although I'm sure they could have had another go at it and solved whatever he didn't like). This has basically stopped Sony from allowing anyone to remix without the original artist/producer or estate being involved.
Keep in mind the projects I produce use out of copyright material, (so the artists/estates have no control over CDs I produce for foreign labels), but the BGO release includes material still in copyright. Big difference.
BGO is issuing a lot of Sony catalogue at the moment as they are making better, more affordable licensing deals than the other majors (particularly Universal who are charging astronomical prices).
They have a distributor that puts their re-releases in a lot of venues so they sell a lot but make very little per unit. It's a different business model.
The last point I would make is that a lot of the overdubs we've done have been praised by pro and amateur critics around the world as being superior to the ones that Mary had Bud Logan work on. Bud's brother, Jack, told me in a taped interview for my book that Bud tired of working on Jim overdubs so would stop by his place, toss some tapes at Jack, and tell him to go to work on them. Ho hum.
Listen to our version of "Blue Side of Lonesome" as an example. We restored a verse, have a prettier string section and background vocals, etc. Our version of "Deep Dark Water" is also beautiful.
But if you want copies of the old albums on a cheap CD, BGO is a way to get it. Just don't expect it to sound as good as it did on the original vinyl.
Re: Yours Sincerely, Jim Reeves/Blue Side Of Lonesome/A Touch Of Sadness/On Stage
Release of this cd has been delayed by 3 weeks due to "late delivery of master tapes".... I've just been told by BGO since I ordered my copy direct from them.
Re: Yours Sincerely, Jim Reeves/Blue Side Of Lonesome/A Touch Of Sadness/On Stage
"LATE DELIVERY OF MASTER TAPES" is ***NOT*** true.
Sony is NOT handing over "master tapes" to anybody. I guarantee you that.
There may be a manufacturing delay of some sort, but BGO needs to be confronted on this erroneous statement. In fact, I would publicly challenge them to prove they are waiting to receive "master tapes." A lot of people confuse that term with "session reels." Big difference.
What they are most likely receiving instead is a digital copy of the "mix down" tapes used to create the albums. But that does not give them access to the individual tracks used to create the RCA overdubs done in the analog age, that contain various problems like tape hiss, etc.
So the amount of manipulation they can do is limited.
I have a stack of Jim Reeves re-releases by a plethora of labels around the world and most of them are crap. I hope the BGO one turns out to be as good as the hype.
I would wonder, however, at this late juncture, why they are marketing a product that they still haven't received the master copies on and why it would take 3 more weeks to receive them, and then they still have to manufacture it. Very odd.
Re: Yours Sincerely, Jim Reeves/Blue Side Of Lonesome/A Touch Of Sadness/On Stage
Larry, I understand the difference between using the original masters and a disc being sourced from the original masters. Technology has come a long way since these albums were made, and the work you've done on the Voicemasters CD's is proof of that-- but I thought these albums sounded really good for what they were then, and I still look forward to having them in their original form.i still think they should sound at least as good as the LP's did,which would be fine by me. As I said before, I have many BGO releases ny other artists, and they all sound great. They come with nice booklets too, so I don't really look at BGO as one of the inferior labels that put out CD's. I've been very happy with the ones I've purchased...
Re: Yours Sincerely, Jim Reeves/Blue Side Of Lonesome/A Touch Of Sadness/On Stage
I just want people to understand the distinctions between the terms used here. BGO is NOT working with original session tapes, NOT working with digital copies of each of the individual multitracks. They are working with dupes of the already-mixed tapes. These sounds are thus "locked in." So if there are imperfections (as there were plenty of) on individual tracks imbedded in the mixdowns created in the analog age), they can't access them to do much about that.
Can anyone please post a link (or send me a copy) of the song "Have You Ever Been Lonely" that is a duet between Jim and Patsy, that's been cleaned up so it doesn't have the horrible tape hiss when Jim's voice is brought in to this electronic duet?
It doesn't exist because (1) the label doesn't care and (2) no other label has access to these separate tracks in order to be able to clean them up.
Here's a suggestion: original pristine vinyl copies of those albums still sealed in shrink wrap are available online on eBay, etc., often for cheap prices.
Buy some of those and listen to them on a decent turntable. OR dub them onto a CD-R yourself for convenience.
I doubt if you do that you will be doing much less than the label is doing, and without reading their liners I have no idea if they were accurate in those.
The re-release labels are tiresome to me. If they can come up with something fresh and new, I'm always excited to hear it. But merely repackaging something is a lazy way to make a buck. And often it isn't as good as the original.
Once I hear and see the BGO product I'll comment further for anyone who may be interested in my views. But bottom line is, they are not doing something revolutionary here...
Re: Yours Sincerely, Jim Reeves/Blue Side Of Lonesome/A Touch Of Sadness/On Stage
I have to be on BGO's payroll to like their CD's? I'm just forming my opinion here like everyone else. I have many CD's on BGO, and they all sound great to me. Therefore, I'm confident they will do a good job on the Jim Reeves CD as well. '
Re: Yours Sincerely, Jim Reeves/Blue Side Of Lonesome/A Touch Of Sadness/On Stage
It was a JOKE Mike. I'm glad you like BGO's releases but as I say, they are the lazy man's way to make a buck. They don't do any heavy lifting and there's nothing new. They re-release stuff, imperfections and all, when it comes to the RCA overdubs because they do not have access to the individual tracks, just the mixdown digital copies.
And this also means you get a CD copy of the original "On Stage" version whereby RCA added studio musicians to make the IN CONCERT material sound "better". The copy of the tape that I released on the 2 CD set "Jim Reeves: There's Someone Who Loves You" presents material they edited out, an additional song, and gives you a chance to hear the concert the way it really sounded, and the way the audience heard it, not the way RCA doctored it up. That's one occasion when overdubbing was NOT the right thing to do, in my opinion.
Re: Yours Sincerely, Jim Reeves/Blue Side Of Lonesome/A Touch Of Sadness/On Stage
What RCA did to that concert, reminds me of the live Johnny Horton lp that Columbia issued after his death. The only thing original from the concert was the talking parts. For the actual songs, Columbia spliced in the studio recorded versions. I would rather have had the actual show.
Re: Yours Sincerely, Jim Reeves/Blue Side Of Lonesome/A Touch Of Sadness/On Stage
Larry,I really liked your undubbed version of the "On Stage" material, and also the unreleased parts you put back in. I always wondered why you didn't release the concert in its entirety though, all on that one disc. I know there's only so much playing time you can fit on one disc, but how come you didn't put the entire concert on the disc instead of using some of the space to repeat the Bill Mack interview? I love that interview, but it would have been nice to have the entire concert all in one place. Of course, the original "On Stage" LP was edited too. Another question--Is there any hope at all that we will ever see a good quality version of all the footage from "The Jimmy Dean Show"? I think the part where Jim is sitting on the porch with Jimmy Dean is priceless, but so far, I've only seen it in really bad quality on you tube. Also,just wanted you to know I got "The Lost Performances" and "The New Gospel Recordings" and they are fantastic. Enjoy them both very much!...
Re: Yours Sincerely, Jim Reeves/Blue Side Of Lonesome/A Touch Of Sadness/On Stage
The concert recorded on the mountainside in Pennsylvania that we released was on the 2 CD set that also included overdubs and, as you note, the Bill Mack interview. It was decided not to include Jim's impersonations because they were so widely known, and to instead include material fans had not heard before, including a bit of a risque joke between Jim and drummer Mel Rogers. You are right -- there is a limit to how much can fit on a CD.
I will never forget Mary Reeves complaining to me years ago that the production company that owned Jimmy Dean's show refused to sell her a copy, despite her pleas to them. She found it bewildering. The original videotape of that show would of course be a better copy than the crap that has been released.
A notorious hoarder from Knoxville, TN is said to have a better copy but it is also reported that he has vowed to have his collection destroyed upon his death and he has no history of sharing anything of significance with the fans.
Another question concerns what happened to the boxes full of color home movies that Ed Gregory sold to someone for $15,000 that have never surfaced since one of his flea market vendors -- someone from the Midwest -- walked off with them. The guy couldn't have cared less about Reeves; he only bought them for their resale potential.
There are clandestine collectors out there who keep a low profile and apparently feel no need to brag about their collections unlike some of the other hoarders.
Lots of things that belonged to Jim have disappeared over the years.
But new things on him are surfacing all the time so never give up hope!
Re: Yours Sincerely, Jim Reeves/Blue Side Of Lonesome/A Touch Of Sadness/On Stage
WHY in God's nane would that hoarder have his collection destroyed upon his death?!!! That is just so cruel and completely unreasonable! It's hard enough to believe there are people selfish enough to refuse to share their collection with other fans, but what does anyone have to gain by having it destroyed after they're gone?! No, Larry, I certainly won't give up hope that the Jimmy Dean tapes and other gems will surface one day. There is a "Best Of Jimmy Dean" DVD collection that does have the fottage of Jim singing "Welcome To My World", but' that's all. The quality is very good, in my opinion, but I'm sure it could be improved upon.There were some complete episodes of the show released as well, but the one with Jim wasn't one of them.
Re: Yours Sincerely, Jim Reeves/Blue Side Of Lonesome/A Touch Of Sadness/On Stage
There are FANS and then there are HOARDERS. The hoarders I have known personally or heard about from close associates of theirs, obsessively collect stuff and lock it away for bragging rights. They don't even enjoy what they have, or look at it or listen to it. They COLLECT. They store it away and deprive others of access to it.
How much of the famed Newberry collection has Mike Curb (who acquired it) ever surfaced? Beyond the pieces on display temporarily in Texas, the bulk of it has never been seen by the true fans of Jim's.
At least Jim's restored Cadillac could theoretically be seen by fans aside from the newly produced video regarding it, if one only knew what car show it might be taken to.
Multiple sources have told me that the Knoxville collector has vowed to destroy his collection and one can only view that as being out of spite.
Incidentally, I've lost track of the number of times this same guy -- or his flunky acolyte in Holland -- promised to share items with the fans AFTER my book got published, so as to not help my research. Yet my book has been out for several years and nothing of significance has been released from the Knoxville collection. So it was just one giant con game they were playing with the fans.
There is a psychological condition known as hoarding syndrome and you should Google it sometime. It's sad to realize that some of Jim's irreplaceable artifacts have fallen into the clutches of these psycho hoarders -- the very thing Mary spent her entire adult life trying to AVOID happening.
BTW, that's why they hate me so intensely. They despise anyone who shares stuff with the fans; they are jealous they missed grabbing onto it. The one consolation to all this is that I have managed to share so much previously unreleased material on Jim Reeves, despite the obsessive quest by the hoarders to get ahold of it first. They have failed time and time again and things slipped through their fingers and ended up in the hands of Jim's fans. And for that I am very happy to have played a part.
Re: Yours Sincerely, Jim Reeves/Blue Side Of Lonesome/A Touch Of Sadness/On Stage
To think that someone could hate you for sharing these wonderful items-- these people have to be the lowest of the low. These hoarders could own their items and still share them with the fans and have nothing to lose. But like you said, Larry, they seem to get their joy from depriving others of what they have.It's not only sick, but just plain mean.
on September 3, 2016, 3:34 pm