We have a problem. I judged two big trials this fall a 58-dog half hour SD stake and a 66-dog grouse championship. We have lost our way; the majority of the dogs I watched this fall do not meet the standard. That standard being run/power, application and style as taught to me by my mentors, peers and laid out in the AFTCA Standards to Field Trial Procedure, Judicial Practice, Handler and Bird Dog Performance. Very few dogs met some approximation of the standard. A dog needs to run hard, hunt the cover appropriately and have style and intensity on point. Your dog can have a great race, be an excellent bird finder but if it pulls its tail, it’s not a trial dog. You can’t have 2 out of 3, we are looking for the complete package, the exceptional dogs that should be bred on to better the breed. I have been trialing since 2009 and for many of those years it was more than a hobby, it was more like a second job. A middle of the field dog from 10 years ago would dominate now.
The worst part of the standard I saw this fall was tails. I have heard all the arguments, tails don’t find birds, etc. Correct, tails do not find birds, and they are the last thing we look at but it is still part of the standard. 10 years ago, and farther back, if you didn’t have style, you didn’t have anything. If your dog did not have a good tail, you didn’t even bring it to the line if you wanted to be taken seriously by your peers. In an ideal world we would all have dogs that are good enough where style can be the deciding factor. That is what we should strive for. We have meals at Alibi Hall, which is a museum of great dogs, the style standard is in front of us every time we are in that building. Somewhere along the line something happened and I think it was during Covid where some of the great competitors aged out and there wasn’t a smooth transition from the old to the new. When I look back at the dogs, I watched time and time again, Quail Trap Sadie, Moss Meadow Traveler, Centerfold Bette, Call me Kate, Dateline Blacklist, Dun Roven’s Drifter etc. 95% of the current field would not stand a chance against any of those dogs.
Everyone needs to go and read the AFTCA Standards to Field Trial Procedure, Judicial Practice, Handler and Bird Dog Performance. That is the standard. If your dog does not look like the dogs pictured in that document, it is not a trial dog, I don’t care how big it runs or how many birds it finds. Read and pay attention page 27 “Shooting Dog Stake” and page 29 “Walking Shooting Dog Stakes”, this is our standard. There is no explicit description of tails in the document because it’s a given or at least was at the time. There is mention of high and lofty tail and it must be above horizontal (I believe the horizontal is in there to capture the 3 hour national). They don’t mention pulled tails at all and they shouldn’t have to. We all know what is supposed to look like. The fact that I and others felt the need to bring this up tells me there is a big problem.
We are the gate keepers. The public expects us to maintain a high standard so that we can produce the best dogs we can, so they can have the best dogs they can. From what I saw this fall the bar is far too low and we are squandering the legacy that was passed to us from the greats before us.
This is not supposed to be easy, this is supposed to be hard, you are supposed to go through dogs to find the best you can bring to the line. Everyone needs to take a hard look at the dogs they are bringing to the line and question whether they meet the standard.
Eric Naus
Re: We have a problem
Posted by Richard Hollister on 10/28/2026, 1:10 pm, in reply to "We have a problem"
I think Eric is just stating what he seen run and compete in a Championship he also stated that he has judged a few other stakes and seen the same dogs do the same thing, I also have just judged a championship and also rode braces in a previous championship and also judged a championship this spring and also a derby stake this fall and I have noticed what Eric has stated. I am a breeder as you all know, and I strive to have bird dogs, and my dogs mostly win on bird finds and not necessarily a huge race but Most of my dogs all pattern forward. I am always looking for the “dog “to breed to and I am not seeing enough of the package in a lot of the dogs running. When I compete, I know when my dogs are doing it or not, I am not blind of when its time to throw in the towel and willingly do so and frankly I do not wish to bore a judge when they have to look at a lot of dogs and I also believe every one that judges is trying to do an honest job with each dog they see. With that said I don’t think Eric is trying to be mean or belittle anyone or their dogs but is stating a trend that needs to be pointed out. I believe Eric and his judging partner Ann judged those dogs fairly and honestly based on the standards we all should be looking for. I agree with Bill on judging the derbies for their potential and not just because they had a bird find. What we haven’t been doing is judging the young dogs on everything, I’m saying that we quit doing second series or bringing the better running dogs back to see them point so we can also judge the pointing style, I am guilty of this and sometimes picking the best races and not seeing them point in a second series or a quail field. I believe we need to get back to this I know it is more costly and time consuming and harder, but honestly shouldn’t we make the best effort to place the right dog? We are all each other’s peers and mentors here and we have a lot of new people in this sport lets have some educated discussions and keep the bashing aside.
Agree Rich, especially on derbies being placed strictly and only because they pointed a bird but did not demonstrate potential to carry on and become competitive championship dogs. It takes a total package to win championships.
Re: We have a problem
Posted by Jeff K on 10/27/2026, 8:12 pm, in reply to "We have a problem"
Yes, we have a problem, airing this out on a public forum. How about if people start airing their grievances about judges on this public forum, would that be OK with you?
Tail sets on point can change day by day, or even during the brace they are running, or even the bird they are pointing. While there are some dogs with bad tails I could not use, that is maybe 10% most, not the majority like you infer.
A dogs race can change daily. I've placed dogs in a trial that the next time I see them, I wonder if its the same dog. But to infer that most dogs running championships dont meet the "standard" is ridiculous; it just wasnt their day. If Babe Ruth struck out 4 times in a game, would you conclude he didnt meet the standard of a major league player?
Many dogs running championships are young dogs, they need to run to get experience. Everyone has become enamored with championships, the smaller trials have gone away. Michigan ran 5 championships this fall, and only 1 weekend stake. Add in the Brittany trial had an OSD stake, thats only 2 chances to get a young dog experience; an hour total of running. In the spring Michigan will run 2 more championships and by the time the weekend trials get going the birds will be on nests and hard to point. So where do the young dog get experience if you dont want to look at them in a championship?
I have a derby right now, I got what I wanted from her this fall. I'm not a points chaser, so its time to move her up as a shooting dog for more advanced experience. Obviously with the holier than thou Michigan attitude, she shouldnt be running in trials out there, then neither will my other dogs run. With this attitude, if I come to Michigan next fall to hunt, there is a strong probability I wont run in an trials so I dont hear the complaints my dogs dont belong. But if I do run, I can tell you which judges I wont run under.
When you take on a judging assignment, you agree to watch every dog for the full 30-60 minutes as if they are the dog that could win it all, even if you know they dont stand a chance. If you cant do that, or are looking to hook a dog as soon as possible dont take on any more judging assignments.
Pump the brakes there bud. I am just letting people know what I saw and all the people that have been around longer than me see the same thing. Yes I aired it on a public forum but this is our forum where things like this get discussed. Then after I wrote it I sent it out to a couple people to make sure I wasn't offside before posting. After posting, I received messages from more people thanking me for bringing this to light. You can call me if you want to talk about it.
Jeff, maybe everyone should reread the post Christy made! Over and over and address that at winter club meetings. If you want examples , I'd be glad to name names
Re: We have a problem
Posted by Bill Holtan on 10/27/2026, 4:36 pm, in reply to "We have a problem"
Not a new problem but maybe getting worse, you obviously have looked at alot of them over the last few weeks.
I think this may be a judging issue starting with the derbies, they should be judged on potential to win championships. Maybe derby judges are getting it wrong and that carries on to having shooting dogs "qualified" to run in championships but not capable of winning. It obviously takes the total package to win, class on the ground and on point and a hard driving race with purpose along with finished manners around game.
Re: We have a problem
Posted by Lonnie Rademacher on 10/27/2026, 6:42 pm, in reply to "Re: We have a problem"
Good point Bill on the derby trials. I would also include summer qualifying trials for some of these problems also.
Re: We have a problem
Posted by Kevin Klein on 10/27/2026, 2:48 pm, in reply to "We have a problem"
Kevin. Id say both pros and amateurs. Im sure it has came from the large influx of new amateurs we have had since covid. And im sure some of it on the pro side stems from the new owners not wanting to let go when the pro tells them to let go and get a new one. And id say its more on the English Setter side then the English pointer side as far as the issues im seeing. As you know ive judged a lot of trials. And im just seeing a downward trend all around. Too much politics. Not enough about the dogs. Not enough about the breed. Eventually the people who are holding on to the original purpose of these trials and trying to better the breed in whatever way they can leave. The spiral needs to stop.
Thank you Sean for the clarity in ur response, much appreciated…
Re: We have a problem
Posted by Bert B on 10/27/2026, 2:08 pm, in reply to "We have a problem"
Eric, you are spot on, those that think " my dog pointed a bird, and should win" are missing at least 95% of the equation, all the important things dogs did 40 years ago, those that have, and continue to push the narrative, that birds are the only thing that matter, they know better, and Shame on them. Walk more, see More, ask More.. and go back to making it about the performance of the dogs, AND NOT THE POLITICS
Re: We have a problem
Posted by Oldiemike on 10/27/2026, 2:07 pm, in reply to "We have a problem"
Couldn’t agree more. I’m old school at 81 years young. I have been blessed to have judged around 40 Championships, mostly 30 To 40 years ago and have noticed far to many dogs in competitions today that don’t meet the criteria established by Bill Brown and the standards for field trial procedure and are being titled as Champions.
Gotcha Mike.. I'm going to be 90 (if I don't get shot by a jealous husband) and I agree with what Eric has made note of. When I was younger (like 40 years ago) I'd try to walk most if not all of the braces in our (Gladwin Field Trial Grounds) championships and on only a rare occasion would I be surprised by the end results. IMO, The Judges Get It Right.. If a dog doesn't have what I call 'eye candy' it isn't going to win. Everything else comes after that. Birds, range etc.. It's the whole package, and I thank those that are willing to give up their time to judge against those standards..
Roger J.
Roger Johnson
Re: We have a problem
Posted by Sean McKellip on 10/27/2026, 1:15 pm, in reply to "We have a problem"
100 percent agree. I judged the previous week's championship and seen the same thing. People need to start getting rid of dogs and going threw more to find the best. Dogs with pulled tails should not be bred. So they have no place in these trials. These short ranging dogs have no place in these trials also as Eric states. These dogs should be or have the ability to be of championship quality. If you have no clue what a championship quality dog is then you need to start walking braces. These trials are for the betterment of the breed. These are the dogs that are showing themselves to see if they are worthy to be bred. We can't keep on this track and expect this to all work itself out fine. We are on a bad path.