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DOWN: Dog Training 100 Years Ago

Posted by Mark Payton <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/coverdog/info/user=Mark+Payton' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 8/9/2024, 8:30 pm

I'm reading Er Shelley's 1921 dog training book. He writes how he steadies a dog by letting them RUN to the end of a 40' checkcord at full speed and then dragging them back to where they pointed and he makes them remain stationary while tapping them lightly with a training whip while commanding DOWN.

Were the dogs taught to drop down before, during, and/or after the birds got up? He mentions multiple times how they were trained to not go with the birds, but what exactly was the dog doing during wing and shot and how did they look doing it?

I could see his outdated method would produce a steady dog, but I would think the dog's style would suffer considerably for such a heavy handed approach.

Has anyone seen a 100 year old photo of a dog actually "down" during wing and shot?

Re: DOWN: Dog Training 100 Years Ago

Posted by jleclair <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/coverdog/info/user=jleclair' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 8/29/2024, 4:57 pm, in reply to "DOWN: Dog Training 100 Years Ago"

There’s a few books by ER Shelley, one details the use of dogs (hounds) for big game in Africa, very interesting!

Re: DOWN: Dog Training 100 Years Ago

Posted by Dennis Ireland <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/coverdog/info/user=Dennis+Ireland' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 8/20/2024, 9:14 am, in reply to "DOWN: Dog Training 100 Years Ago"

spelling CORRECTION Al Brenneman
DI

Re: DOWN: Dog Training 100 Years Ago

Posted by Dennis Ireland <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/coverdog/info/user=Dennis+Ireland' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 8/20/2024, 9:07 am, in reply to "DOWN: Dog Training 100 Years Ago"

Er Shelley came America to teach Americans before WWI how to train a dog to be steady to wing and shot and kill. The English taught their dogs to go down for safety reasons. Later on in the late 20's and 30's dogs were taught to drop as birds were netted: a lot of hunters could not afford shotguns and shells. Hence came the word droppers: mostly crossbred English Setters and Pointers and registered in the American Field as droppers.Al Brennman, my mentor,trained pretty close to Er Shelley's method with a check cord and riding crop and without any of the modern equipment used today.His methods certainly were not heavy handed. I would put his end product up against anything I have seen yesterday or today. DI

Re: DOWN: Dog Training 100 Years Ago

Posted by jleclair <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/coverdog/info/user=jleclair' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 8/29/2024, 3:49 pm, in reply to "Re: DOWN: Dog Training 100 Years Ago"

I just reread his book “Al Brenneman trains bird dogs”. It is a well written book that clearly outlined his methods, interesting read, to be sure. He did work under Er Shelley, and his training routine was greatly influenced by that.

Re: DOWN: Dog Training 100 Years Ago

Posted by Mark Payton <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/coverdog/info/user=Mark+Payton' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 8/25/2024, 4:52 pm, in reply to "Re: DOWN: Dog Training 100 Years Ago"

Dennis,

I wish I had read this before I finished editing my video. Are you saying that Er Shelley was ENGLISH?!?! I had no idea. I saw a Derry Argue (English dog trainer) with a dozen or so pointers and setters, and in about 10 seconds he was able to get all of them in the down position.

Just so that I understand:

Were the dogs taught to drop down before, during, and/or after the birds got up?

You say that you put his dogs (Brenneman's but who can serve as proxy for Shelley's) up against any others, but how did they look doing their work?

Here's the video:

?si=voh79rIzL90VNAne

Re: DOWN: Dog Training 100 Years Ago

Posted by Dennis Ireland <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/coverdog/info/user=Dennis+Ireland' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 8/26/2024, 7:15 am, in reply to "Re: DOWN: Dog Training 100 Years Ago"

I said Brenneman's finished product looked as good as any I have seen today finished to wing,shot and kill as his finished dogs were forced broke to retrieve.Per ER SHELLEY

Re: DOWN: Dog Training 100 Years Ago

Posted by DICK <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/coverdog/info/user=DICK+Stroup' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 8/11/2024, 2:21 pm, in reply to "DOWN: Dog Training 100 Years Ago"

I was always told that dogs were taught to lie down or sit in the days before shotguns when handlers would throw nets over the pointed covey AND the dog.

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