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Need help

Posted by Confused 1 <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/coverdog/info/user=Confused++1' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 2/16/2024, 5:02 pm

I'm new to coverdog trials, and starting to see ads for Spring trials, could someone explain what " TRIALS RUN TO AFTCA GUIDELINES " means.
Is it something that I need to train my young dog for?

Another question,, while attending and walking several trials over the last several seasons, I've noticed dogs getting placements that were sideways and to the rear on many occasions, then I watched those judges run their own dogs, or customers dogs, and most don't run like the dogs they awarded placements to.

What am I missing when it comes to what a dog should be doing to get a placement?

I'm new to all this, and just wanting to get started the best way I can. Thanks for any insight

Re: Need help

Posted by RayG <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/coverdog/info/user=RayG' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 2/17/2024, 10:28 pm, in reply to "Need help"

Confused -

I said that a judge's job was to put up the best dogs they saw...that day.

Judging bird dog trials can be an absolutely thankless job which only serves to stoke the ill will of some contestants against judges who do not put up their dogs. It is entirely possible that you, as a judge, have offended a participant by not using their dog and that offended participant may wind up judging YOUR dog at a future trial. There is only ONE winner at a field trial...only one first place dog. All the rest are losers and that can be tough for some types of folks to handle...but that is field trialing.

In my experience, most folks who judge do their very best to make those decisions. But no two folks come to the judging with the exact same set of experiences and preferences. Judges are human beings and while they do strive to get it right...nobody's perfect. Some days, neither are the dogs, but you gotta judge what is put in front of you.

Any judgement that depends on the knowledge, experience and observative skills of the judge is going to be colored by those criteria. There is no ONE set of standards that is absolute. There is always a balancing of the various aspects of a performance.

I have always found that watching the pros handle, was very helpful to me. YMMV.

RayG

Re: Need help

Posted by Confused 1 <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/coverdog/info/user=Confused++1' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 2/19/2024, 9:11 am, in reply to "Re: Need help"

Ray, I can only imagine how difficult it would be to be a judge, the more I read about the AFTCA, and the guidelines, it refers to being fair and unbiased, I believe, it also covers the conducting of a trial, the conduct of participants, gallery, club officials judges, owners etc. My observations have been Confusing, because I've noticed the same owners and pros seem to get placements, I thought that Amateur Field Trial Clubs of America meant just that. Ray not sure if you can explain, but broach my original question to the Clubs that include that statement in their ads. Thanks for your insight.

Re: Need help

Posted by RayG <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/coverdog/info/user=RayG' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 2/19/2024, 2:45 pm, in reply to "Re: Need help"

Confused -

Judging a field trial is not all that difficult, IMO.

If a person has a firm grasp of the rules, a sound understanding of what it means to hunt in a productive manner and knows what it means to be steady to wing and shot... Those are absolute prerequisites that require experience, preferably from hunting and training your own dogs. A judge must be willing to pay absolutely close attention to each and every dog under judgement and be continually evaluating the performance that is unfolding. Lastly, a judge has to have a pretty thick skin and a level of confidence in their decision making process.
Remember I said there is only one winner in a field trial. There are folks that do not handle losing all that well and, honestly, many of them do not last in the field trial game...because you lose a lot more than you win and that can be tough on the ego. The best of the field trialers I have known take those losses as incentive to work harder, train harder...get a better dog, whatever it takes... and generally to find a way to raise their game.

The most important thing about judging is that you are judging the performance of the DOG. You should be watching the dog(s) and basically only see the back of the handler's head. Who the handler is, should not matter. What the handler does can either help or hurt the dog's performance, but you are not judging the handler...just the dog. IMO, when field trials are about the dogs, they are usually pretty right. When they are about the people... not so much.

RayG

Re: Need help

Ray,

Unfortunately, your last sentence should be a warning, if it continues to be about the people, field trials are doomed IMO

Re: Need help

Posted by RayG <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/coverdog/info/user=RayG' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 2/19/2024, 4:39 pm, in reply to "Re: Need help"

Confused -

Field trials are as good or bad as the participants make them to be. If one wants to find fault and such, you can. Bitching and moaning and complaining is easy. Doing something about it can be hard, but if you do nothing but bitch and moan, nothing gets better. However, if one chooses to take up the challenge and make the sport as much better as they can, they can do that. Lots of folks have done that too.
I have seen many, many competitors who have put their own wants and desires aside to allow others to enjoy running their dogs. They work tirelessly to organize trials, get venues, get judges, arrange food, etc. I have seen a fair number of competitors who are so honest and caring about the process that I would trust them to judge their own dogs. Those folks I call sportsmen and women and count myself fortunate to have known them.
Each of us can be a part of the problem or we can be part of the solution. The choice is yours. If you don't like how some stakes are being judged...STEP UP and judge yourself. Get involved in the sponsoring clubs and make a difference. I did.

Enjoy your sport, Enjoy your dogs. I have.

RayG

Re: Need help

Great thoughts, I agree totally. Thanks

Re: Need help

Posted by RayG <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/coverdog/info/user=RayG' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 2/16/2024, 6:57 pm, in reply to "Need help"

Confused -

No need to be confused.

First off, AFTCA guidelines refer to their running rules which are detailed on their website. https://www.aftca.org/

Essentially the FDSB reistered adult dog needs to hunt and not get lost, and when it finds a bird it needs ot have a productive point(bird is there for the flush) and the dog must r4emain steady through flush and shot.

Second, if it is an amateur stake run under AFTCA sanction, the owner of the dog must be a dues paying AFTCA member. If it is an open stake, an aftca membership is not necessary.

As far as the judging is concerned, I would just be concerned with how my dog ran. A judge is looking at my dog for a half our or an hour at most. They give their opinion based on what they saw. If I was happy with my dog's performance... that is all that I really need. If I saw things in the heat of competition that needed improvement, I know what I need to work on.
Just remember that the judge's job is to put up the best performances they have seen...that day.

Watch the pros and how they handle themselves and their dogs. You will learn some things to do and maybe a couple things NOT to do.

Above all, have fun with your dog.

RayG

Re: Need help

Posted by Mike Siegel <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/coverdog/info/user=MikeSiegel' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 2/17/2024, 4:37 pm, in reply to "Re: Need help"

Ray;
That was the perfect response. I always strive to have a good time. I hope my dog is ready for the day and I can get her around clean. If the judge likes my dog, that’s a bonus. But if my dog and I are having a good time it’s a good day.
Mike

Mike Siegel

Re: Need help

Posted by Confused 1 <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/coverdog/info/user=Confused++1' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 2/17/2024, 5:32 pm, in reply to "Re: Need help"

Ray, I did read, and watched the " Pros " both judging and handling, That's why I'm Confused. Lol

Re: Need help

Posted by Robert Ellis <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/coverdog/info/user=Robert+Ellis' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 2/20/2024, 11:30 am, in reply to "Re: Need help"

Go as often as possible and walk every one.
It will start to come together and make sense.
Hundreds.

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