The definition of a good grouse is one where you don't load your gun until your dog is pointed.You only carry three shells if thr limit is 2 and you only carry 5 if the limit is 4.Birds point per number of flushes tells you if you have a good grouse dog.Ive had the good fortune off having seen some truly great great grouse dogs.Some were trial dogs and three 4 were gun dogs.