The Old Scout Message Board

Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by Whoops on July 18, 2022, 10:15 am

Lets be honest here...if the roles were reversed, Baugh would've been sitting in the dugout waiting for the Smash It players to stroll in.

There is zero, I REPEAT ZERO, chance that they are making Smash It take a forfeit if they are even remotely close to being at the park.

What a way to treat a sponsor like Baugh, who has spent well into 6-7 figures during his run of Conference sponsorship. Completely laughable. I know all the "it's in the rules" people will be screaming, but if you think they would've done this to Smash It, you're lost.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by Ever on July 18, 2022, 10:21 am, in reply to "Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

Has a Major team ever shown up late? I also believe SIS sponsors went over there and fought to play the game. Good thing they got the forfeit cause they looked like trash when they did take the field later that night.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by DJ on July 18, 2022, 10:25 am, in reply to "Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

Of course we all know that. This isn’t a controversial stance. But the umpires did what they had to do. Now if this happens again involving a major team, they know it’ll be enforced. If the roles were reversed and the umps made Baugh wait around, there would be no pressure for any other teams to ever show up on time. There would be the “you let that team show up late, so you have to let us”.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by No balls on July 18, 2022, 10:43 am, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

Well they did let a C team start 5 minutes late Saturday morning because they weren't there on time to start early.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by DW on July 18, 2022, 10:46 am, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

Pretty sure the 1st game of the day is a different rule.

If people don't like rules then why not work to get them changed?

I don't know of anyone that likes to play at 2 am in the morning though.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by Why on July 18, 2022, 10:54 am, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

Why would the first game of the day be any different then the last game of the day and those games in between?

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by DW on July 18, 2022, 10:59 am, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

I don't have your answers and I said "pretty sure".

I think last year in Cincy it was the uniform rule that everyone cried about. Yet no one says a word in managers meeting or at the convention to try and question why things are the way they are.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by Hmmm on July 18, 2022, 12:58 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

Let’s put this in perspective for everyone who wasn’t there.

Baugh was not 30 minutes late to their game time. The game time was set for 12:30. At 11:58 Baugh had 2 players in their dugout, with the rest of the team coming in from the parking lot/at the gate paying their fee to get into the park.

They were 29 minutes EARLY, yes the rules state please have your teams there 30 minutes prior to start time just incase games run ahead. If you’re going to make a team forfeit a WINNERS bracket game because they were 29 minutes early and not 30, that’s a shame. You’re setting yourself up as an organization to lose a great sponsor to the game like Tommy who has spent WELL over 2 million dollars within the last 10 plus years supporting the mens & womens games.

Also, if you want to be this strict, hold your staff to the same
Standard. 4 umpires sitting under the pavilion when the game being played after that forfeit sat for 25 minutes waiting on umpires & balls.

Figure it out

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by DW on July 18, 2022, 1:15 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

I'm not sure why you are responding to me, I have nothing to do with the rules, the decision, or what you wrote.

But at 15 minutes til real game time they still didn't have enough to play.

Figure it out no namer.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by Skip on July 18, 2022, 1:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

How about silverbacks waiting for over 30 minutes for their bats at the Smokey AFTER the umpires took the flip and S&E took the field. figure it out.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by DW on July 18, 2022, 1:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

Did the bat bucket transporter forfeit?

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by Hmmm on July 18, 2022, 1:31 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

The response wasn’t directed toward you DW, it was for the the general public in this feed.

The figure it out was directed toward USSSA as a whole. Don’t hold sponsors to standards & not your staff.

The people saying “Reverse the roles” are absolutely correct. And 15 minutes after the time If very incorrect as well.

If the game in front of them was over so far in advance, as a director (not you) they should be making a call to BOTH teams coaches asking them to be there ASAP because they want to start the game sooner than the 30 minutes prior.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by DW on July 18, 2022, 1:46 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

I was there and I checked the time and how many people were at the field and directors said they made calls to Baugh Ford.

I even tried to make 2 calls myself to Tommie and Bellamy but the calls failed for lack of phone service.

It is a tragic situation with no good outcome for usssa, the teams, the fans, etc, maybe the penalty is too harsh, but why are teams not ready to go 30 minutes early, that makes no sense at all?

I personally don't want to hear about umpires being late who get treated like shit by these teams. At some point they have to eat and go to the bathroom. Teams have a couple games a day, umpires are there first game til midnight. Big difference.

When a tournament gets cancelled due to lack of umpires in the near future the conference should trigger a suspension for every player, manager, and sponsor that talked down to an umpire during 2022 as a penalty.

Calmly question a call or ask for help or discuss a rule but don't talk down to or embarrass another grown man. It's called adulting and maturing as a person.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by DW on July 18, 2022, 1:52 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

Players playing for a sponsor that puts in 2 million dollars and as a player you show up late for your game...

Take some responsibility and move on.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by Hmmm on July 18, 2022, 2:05 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

Speaking to some of them, they were all together preparing for the game down the road, they were not out to lunch lol.

Everyone will have their own opinions on the situation, were they not on the field 30 minutes prior to game time, yes, did their coaches take the fall, probably. But like stated, they were not “late” they were still early.

And as far as the umps go, they take shit absolutely, unfortunately that comes with the job and they know that. The statement about the Umps is really about holding EVERYONE to the standard, if you’re going to give a team shit for be 29 minutes ahead of schedule and not 30, you also need to have a conversation with the staff to be there ready to go as well. Simple.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by DW on July 18, 2022, 2:10 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

I won't be having a conversation with anyone.

I report, I observe, I write the facts.

There were 3 players in the dugout at 28 minutes til listed game time and zero players in line paying to get in. I know that for a fact because I was standing between the gate and the field.

At 20 minutes til there were 6 players in the dugout.

At 15 minutes til there still was not 10 to take the field. Ask anyone that was actually there. You can't play in conference with 9 or less.

Is it right to make them forfeit? Seems like a harsh penalty but it's above my paygrade but I bet not a single team brings it up for discussion at the next meeting because the teams are afraid to discuss rules and things in the conference. Why they are afraid I have no idea.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by Wonderer on July 18, 2022, 2:27 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

So at 12:15pm there were still not enough in the dugout to play? Cause everyone has this preconceived notion that there was 6 players in the dugout at 12pm and more paying at that time and at 12:01pm the ump called the game. But youre saying they still waited till 12:15pm before making the final decision?

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by DW on July 18, 2022, 2:28 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

It is my understanding the game was called at 12:00 when there were zero players in the dugout.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by @hmm on July 18, 2022, 2:29 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

Baugh was late. The coaches for smash hit took the toss at 12pm exactly. If someone from Baugh was at the field they would have been taking the toss? When you say in the park you mean walking in because they weren’t at the field they were playing on.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by CR on July 18, 2022, 2:46 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

Just a question. did the Siteman vs TPA Game start at 9 am on Saturday morning? It is listed for 9:30 am start time, but Siteman had a forfeit at 8am.

Same thing with the Precision game at 9:30 AM on Saturday Morning.

If either of those games didnt start at 9 AM then I would say Baugh Ford has a complaint. If both of them started at 9am then you cant complain because it was equal across the board.

Now with all of these said, seems like a zero tolerance policy was taken on time. I sure hope all other rules in the book are taken with that same Zero Tolerance policy. Including abuse of officials.

Also this is not pointing fingers at anyone or anything just simply stating sometimes common sense has to be used.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by DW on July 18, 2022, 2:51 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"
Edited by board administrator July 18, 2022, 2:55 pm

No idea.

I know a lot of players play without their shirt tucked in. Some umpires enforce it some don't.

I know a lot of players stood outside the dugout. Some enforced it some don't.

I saw a number of players step in front of the plate on their swing and not get called out. Sometimes they do sometimes they don't.

Moral of the story is follow the rules and you won't get penalized.

Don't follow the rules and you might get penalized.

All rules are like speeding tickets. We all speed but you don't always get pulled over.

If you are that guy that thinks every game and every tournament and every team is going to be policed the exact same way by every umpire and every director then you are not cut out for the conference or life in general.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by CR on July 18, 2022, 3:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

DW,

First I wasnt arguing with you. You are correct if it says 30 mins then enforce it cause nobody wants to play till 3am.

With that said, this seems like a decision that was made by a tournament director, and not by an umpire.
If the director didnt enforce the first 2 games of the day with the same rule, you certainly cant enforce the 4th game

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by DJ on July 18, 2022, 3:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

I was floored that Rocobaldo and Martel weren’t told to tuck their shirts in at the Smoky on Sunday.

Idk how people wear pants and untucked shirts anyway; it looks lazy and feels like you’re 5x slower on the ground

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by old sponsor on July 18, 2022, 3:38 pm, in reply to "Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

Trying to understand? its a suggestion to be there 30 minutes before GAME TIME, yet forfeit time is at the suggestion time? makes no sense. I feel forfeit should be at game time. Sounds like had 15 minutes to field team to me. All money sponsors spend to get team there, should be clearer rules.

Yet I have witnessed at game time, teams take the field and allowed to warm up 15 minutes mote. Its unreal.

We were playing in Irish Deli in alabama years ago. Games were 4 hours behind at least. I hadnt noticed or was not told that no games were scheduled from 3 to 7 on the hours until 30 minutes before our games was scheduled at 7. We thought earliest play was 930 or 10 earliest. i frantically got someone to go nto hotel to round everyone up. I had lineup turned in 5 minutes early with 3 coaches and 2 sponsors in it. Other team had no idea that if they won flip and chose vistor they would have got forfeit. My players wer running in npark as 5th batters was making 3rd out. sub in 6 players and took field.

Hit 7 homeruns in row in bottom 7th to win!!!!

We also waited over 45 minutes in final winners bracket for other team to show in ISA world in taylor michigan. Ask if wanted forfeit , I said no.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by DW on July 18, 2022, 3:59 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

Message boards are threaded. If you respond to a particular post then you are talking to that person specifically.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by Rsmith on July 18, 2022, 4:15 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

DW your time line is correct but the perspective is skewed. I was one of the players in the dugout at 1158. At 12:01 bats were pulled off the field and the forfeit was issued. Once the forfeit was issued and confirmed by Stro, players had no reason to be in the dugout or around for that matter. So when you say at 12:15 we did not have enough that’s not wholly accurate. The ultimate responsibility is our own. It’s didn’t ruin our weekend as we played well in a good event.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by DW on July 18, 2022, 4:21 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

I'm not sure players were called and told not to come into the park when teams were still arguing with directors to play the game at 12:15. But I guess anything is possible.

But we are definitely beating a dead horse here.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by Zross on July 18, 2022, 5:06 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

DW, the purpose of this site is to voice opinions & thoughts about topics. It’s really not beating a dead horse when, as you just stated, topics like this need to be discussed in meetings & such.

What Rickey said is 100% facts, our coaches took responsibility in our team meeting for not managing the time accurately, even though we agreed it all of us that need to hold some responsibility.

With that being said, I looked back in the livestreams & they stood there at 11:59 and someone saw Tommy come into the park, they flipped the coin at 12 & then is you watch biscuit tells Tommy he needs to go talk to TK. I believe your timeline of “12:15” is false, I know for fact we were all inside before then. But like I said, we accept responsibility, just want the facts to be accurate. You and I talked about the situation & as frustrating as it was, it was stros call & he made it.

It sucks given the nature and importance of that game for us & seeing that Bay Area beat them in the next game, who knows the outcome of that 12:30 game. I hope this never happens to any team,

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by Nascar on July 18, 2022, 5:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

Stro is like Biden = Clueless

Hopefully gone soon too

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by DW on July 18, 2022, 5:52 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

As you came up to me at the park and before you said anything I said "whatever you are going to say, you are not wrong".

Everyone's opinion on this situation is correct. No one is wrong because its a crazy situation. Stro can back up his decision with the rules. Sponsors can back up their point that the game should be played because of all the money they have put in or put in in the past.

The directors and umpires are following orders so they are not wrong.

The players were nearby so its not like they were at the hotel so they are not wrong.

Its just a really sucky situation. What is the solution. We need to be playing these games asap when fields are open so we don't get out of there at 2 am. So we need a solution.

But it was a really eery feeling when I look and see the entire smashit team on the field and no one for Baugh and no one coming in the gate or running from the parking lot. I knew this wasn't going to end well so I walked over to the pavilion and observed what transpired while looking at the time on my iphone over and over.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by Mr.E on July 18, 2022, 6:34 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

Baugh should be responsible for not getting there "on time".

At the same time,"In conference game time is the bracket game time listed minus 30 minutes" is what DW stated in the other thread. Why not just make the official game time what's listed on the bracket? "Be prepared to play 30 minutes before Gametime" is what I've seen in many tournaments(not conference). That's used in case games finish quicker. Keep the game time as the game time, not adding some other note to it.

Conference has some dumbass time issues. You've got that rule, but if a game finishes earlier, the next one doesn't start on time or 30 minutes before it's listed. Teams will take grounders and do whatever else passed the scheduled start. Why not start the next game right away? Why allow teams to take grounders passed game time? 4 teams taking grounders before games puts the schedule an hour behind at the end of the day, but we know it's more than that. That's why games are played at 2am, then having the loser typically come back to play at 8am. Why are those teams punished for others not reinforcing game times?

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by Flplayer on July 18, 2022, 6:51 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

I don’t have a dog in this. But why have a bracketed game time. Say 2:30 is game time. Is the game time not 2:30? If the option to be there 30 minutes prior is not mandatory ( because game time is 2:30. ) I’m sorry the other game ended sooner but we play at 2:30. why is there a penalty

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by WI Umpire on July 18, 2022, 9:20 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

Because we want to get as much of a cushion as possible before everything starts slowing down as we get into late Saturday night. It really sucks to walk off the field at 3:40 Sunday morning and be back for a 8am game. If we can be a half hour early, and maybe even move through games at a decent pace. Maybe we can be out of there at a reasonable time.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by Mr.E on July 19, 2022, 1:23 am, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

Then start the next game right away. No more infield practice before games. Clear the dugouts, get the next teams in, and get going. So much wasted time between games. Its not good for the live stream either.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by Fly on July 19, 2022, 7:41 am, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

The schedule thing is always tough. Sometimes games run ahead. Sometimes they run way behind.

The only way I've found to make it work, so the entire team isn't waiting around at the park, I send a group text out when the game before us starts. Then I give inning and score about every other inning. I haven't had a problem, since I started that. I just have to miss BP, which I'm really not needed at anyways. I actually started that at the 24 hour Challenge Cup monstrosity a couple years ago, so the team could get as much rest as possible.

They only thing I can think that might get you is if they switch the fields around last minute to get things caught up. I'd hope the director would work with you, if that were the case.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by DW on July 19, 2022, 7:49 am, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

The other thing that could happen is something unexpected like the team playing ahead of you gets someone ejected and they end up forfeiting.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by BPic on July 19, 2022, 8:42 am, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

How about a scheduled game time, but if there is an instance where the game previous ends early due to ejection, run rule, etc, that from that point the teams to play the game after have 30 minutes to get from wherever they are to the field? This way calls and communications can be made, and hopefully they can get to the field in that amount of time. Otherwise, they are on the scheduled game time on the bracket. I'm not sure if they still do for NCAA basketball tourney or not but it used to read that the opening game would be at say 7 p.m., but then they would say for the second game, approximately 35 minutes from the end of previous game, not knowing when it would actually end, in the event there was overtime. If they could implement something to that idea. Feasible?

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by Skip on July 19, 2022, 11:29 am, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

Cool story. Now go take a nap. Nobody wants to hear glory day stories.

Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It

Posted by old sponsor on July 19, 2022, 1:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Baugh Ford vs Smash It"

simply references to how things were handled in old days. Sure you are one of those people that want forfeit instead of facing and beating team. enjoying my nap and retirement from want to bee like you.

cool name

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