The Old Scout Message Board

Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by J. Trammell on February 11, 2021, 5:02 am

I going to apologize in advance for the long message. TM60+....I have posted and debated once before on the PED subject with you and this is going to be over the same thing. The day Hank Aaron passed away you went on another rant about him and Barry Bonds. You said "Hank did it the right way...He was a TRUE GOAT". Also stated 'that he wasn't some steroid filled cheater hiding behind lies". Obviously there is no way you or anyone else, besides Hank Aaron himself, would know if he actually took steroids. So your statement is based off of your opinion and belief he didn't, not actually factual evidence.
Its not hard to see how much you dislike PED's, the people you say used them, and "cheaters" in general. I'm sure you would agree that cheating is cheating no matter if you cheated a lot or just a little, you would still label them a cheat. If thats the case then you have to agree that Hank Aaron also "cheated". In his 1990 autobiography he stated that he was slumping real bad and took a "GREANIE" AKA DEXEDRINE, but only took it one time. He hated it because his heart felt like it was going to explode and it made him sick. Just like PED's Dexedrine is considered a performance enhancing drug. It speeds up your heart rate, heightens your senses, alertness, aggression, and REACTION TIME. There are also MLB pros that said when they took it helped them see the ball better and there are doping experts that say it increases your hand eye coordination. Do you believe he only took them one time? His stats which are posted below say otherwise. But, even if you believe he only did it just once you still have to admit he cheated. Does Dexedrine help you perform better that steroids, probably not but both still enhance performance. 85% of MLB was rumored to be taking it at the time. I guess you could say it wasn't cheating because it wasn't banned by MLB. In that case Hank Aaron could have taken steroids and it not be considered cheating because they were not banned until 1991.
Before I show you the stats I would like to say don't care what they injested or when. Bonds and Aaron with or without PED's are still 2 of the greatest hitters of all time. No amount of PED's would make you "The Goat". Would they help sure but you could pump an entire CVS full of PED's in your body and not even become a professional athlete let alone in talks of being "The Goat". Brian Bosworth learned that the hard way.
Now for some stats. These stats are Hank Aarons from 1968, THE YEAR HE ADMITTED TO TAKING DEXEDRINE, and on. Nothing from his younger years when a player that is considered "The Goat" would need them. First number is his age, second number is his home runs, and third is this HR%. Which is the number of home runs per 100 AB's.

35--29--4.8
36--44--8.0
37--38--7.4
38--47--9.5
39--34--7.6
40--40--10.2
41--20--5.9
42--12-2.6
43--10--3.2
Looking at these numbers it shows that after 1968 when he was slumping and ingested his one and only PED his numbers improved.
At the age of 38, 39, and 40 he led the NL in HR%. In 1973 at age of 40 he had his career high in HR%. Also that same year two of his teammates Darrell Evans and Davy Johnson had career years.
41 HR's and 6.9 for Evans and 43 HR's 7.7 for Johnson. Also that same year Congress issued a report saying that anabolic steroids were rampant in baseball. All three of the players numbers dropped drastically. Coincidence, maybe. Does it prove they took PED's, No. Does it look Fishy, hell yeah. Does it prove there is a lot of Hypocrites, hell yeah. Did you ever think that maybe Hank Aaron admitted to taking Dexedrine just that one time so that people would take him on his word and not dig deeply into what may or may not have really happened. That the easiest way to not get into HUGE trouble for something you did wrong. To Keep your parents from doing some major digging and finding out the whole story you just Admit to a little wrong for a small punishment, instead of deny it all and have them find out the whole truth.
Maybe its not PED's ruining sports. Maybe its the older generation ruining it because they are jealous of where athletes are now days and think that todays greats couldn't be this good without PED's and that if they could have taken them back in their day they would be "The Goat". I don't know. One thing I do know is, every sport has PED's in them and people only complain about them when its the greats that admit to or are assumed to be taking them. What you need to realize is the athletes that are the greatest in sports would be great with or without them. That includes all of these players in softball you call out on here. They would be great with or without them. The bad thing is, you call these guys out on an assumption, or maybe someone you know told you they used PED's. Unless you sold them the PED's and witnessed the actual PED consumption, how the hell are you SOOOOOOO sure. Your not!!! How about you sit back and enjoy the game and if you have to rant about PED's quit blaming the players and start blaming the fans and the doctors that are making them. Fans demand to see new and exciting things and doctors want that money. Wouldn't have to worry about PED's if you could eliminate the problem where it begins

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by huzz on February 11, 2021, 9:34 am, in reply to "Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

DW. where is the like button?

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by DW on February 11, 2021, 9:57 am, in reply to "Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

The boardhost company has been unwilling to program a proper like button unfortunately.

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by Bruiser Brody on February 11, 2021, 12:28 pm, in reply to "Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

It's not the greatest athletes who are making a mockery of some sports. It's the below average cats who become average Brett Boone (size increase) or the average cat who become amazing (Ben Johnson's start
in the 100 meters was out of this world on juice) ( Brady Anderson goes from 16 to 48 Jack's) and a bunch of others Sosa, (Nelson Cruz, been popped multiple times). The Arod', Bonds, Clemens, who could play in any area jumped in the juice game for a multitude of reasons. Sofball because it's less about juice and more about the bats is not as relevant. If someone wants to take juice to improve there game most people won't care. Not enough money or prestidge involved. Not sure why it bothers TM so much.

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by Hammering Hank fan on February 11, 2021, 12:37 pm, in reply to "Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

I am going to have to go with Hank Aaron on this topic. This isn't the first time this argument defending Bonds has come up. There have even been absurd theories that Babe Ruth used steroids despite the fact that testosterone wasn't even synthesized until a few years after he retired. There are actually other good reasons why Aaron was successful in his late thirties that have nothing to do with wild theories he was an amphetamine popping machine in his later years. First off, you must realize that there were major rules change from 1968-1969 that dramatically affected the dynamics between pitching and hitting. 1968 was known as the year of the pitcher with Bob Gibson's 1.12 ERA, Denny McClain 31 wins and Don Drysdale's 56 consecutive scoreless innings. Yaz led the AL with a .301 average! Due to the dominance of pitching in the late 60s, MLB took two major steps to juice up the offense: 1) the lowered the mound from 15 to 10 inches and 2) the changed the strike zone. The changes had a dramatic affect on offense which explains why Aaron's stats were quite good in his late thirties. In addition the Braves moved to Atlanta in 1966. In 1969 they moved the fences in ten feet. Fulton County Stadium in Atlanta was dubbed The Launching Pad since it was known as a great home run hitting park. That partially explains why Aaron had late career success. Also, Aaron was known for not drinking, smoking or taking drugs. He kept himself in good shape. You are trying to cast aspersions against Aaron to defend Bonds and/ or steroid use in general. There is absolutely no doubt that steroids and other PEDS offer a dramatic improvement in performance in ALL sports. That is a fact. That is why its prevalent in the conference and every upper level sport.

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by J....TM60+ on February 11, 2021, 12:37 pm, in reply to "Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

That most likely is the most studied and well written post in Old Scout history.

You touched on many things so I will attempt now to address just one right now... I will return to address other points you made at a latter time.

***Hank Aaron... good info.... many variables in hr frequency... balls, field dimensions, health just to name a few need to be considered but none of his career homerun totals look like anomalies.

I do agree before Canceco...baseball believed muscle mass reduced the ability to play so if steroids were used it was for recovery and energy... not strength... which still a version of cheating clean players of a fair field of play. a which is wrong

I do not know if Aaron used PED....So I guess I could have been wrong believing he did it the right way and was the true GOAT.

BUT I would believe him if he stood up and swore on his loved ones life’s that he NEVER USED PED .

That same statement goes for today’s softball players... and YES... we all know very few, IF ANY, of the elite list players would swear on their loved ones life’s to never have used PED.

Why do I think the swear on your loved ones life holds so much credit... because only a total piece of shitz would lie on their loved ones life’s... and I believe most never want to be known as a person that would lie in such a circumstance.

I have a good story about speed in MLB that I will share the next time I post..

gotta go back to work now

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by huzz on February 11, 2021, 12:53 pm, in reply to "Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

i'd make a different argument.. it's very hard to compare era's of player because of all the changing science in human growth and technology. better bats.. mound height.. more access to study pitchers.. tighter wound baseballs.. the list goes on. the only comparisons can be made against others in your same era.. that said i believe during the raging steroid era of baseball many more pitchers were juicing. how many guy threw a hundred when aaron played vs. bonds era?

fact remains although many players were juicing at that time.. he was the best of that set. did aaron ever face right hand only relievers or was he seeing guys that thew 100+ pitches every start? it's just too different to compare.

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by To Trammell Hammering Hank TM6 on February 11, 2021, 1:47 pm, in reply to "Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

TO J. Trammell – Great Post! You make many great points and your post absolutely creates many talking points and makes for great debating. In addition, you support your points with actual data (see that TM60, facts and data, something you always leave out).

TO Hammering Hank – Great Reply. Like J. Trammell great points backed by facts and data.

It would be interesting to see you guys debate this topic, both post are well thought, and good reading supported by facts and data.

To TM60 – And you respond with ‘Swear on my loved one’s life’. Not only are you pathetic but you are over your head and out of your league with these two.

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by Rambo Fan on February 11, 2021, 1:52 pm, in reply to "Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

Brady Anderson actually hit 50 and the Invader was never charged with the incident with Bruiser

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by I swear...rest my caseTM60+ on February 11, 2021, 2:17 pm, in reply to "Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

My case and point...

If you do not believe my “swear on your loved ones life’s” holds power/merit...

All anyone really has to do to prove my theory is... ask all player you know that have been on the elite list to come on this site... and put their official name to a thread kinda like this...

There has been rumors about elite player ped use being rampant and...I (insert your name here) swear on all my loved ones life’s that I never used PED. May God strike them all dead if I am not stating the truth.

You see, I believe ... even in the warped world of softball there are limits to what one will say to cover for oneself.

Swearing on your loved ones and asking God to take them home if you are lying is more or less the final line before you are a complete pile of shitz.

There have been many elites that have posted on this site... don’t you think it’s amazing..after all these years not one of them has posted with their name and swore on their loved ones life’s that they didn’t use PED and ask for God to call the loved ones home if he was lying....

Talk about game set MATCH.

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by Bruiser Brody on February 11, 2021, 2:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

Charged and aquitted by self defense. Definately wouldn't of wanted to be in the middle of that fiasco. Someone was gonna get hurt and they did.

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by Game Set Match..Absolutely on February 11, 2021, 3:19 pm, in reply to "Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

TM60 you are right. Your response does make it Game Set Match and you lose. However, your continued lack of an actual response makes you the loser.

Swear on your loved ones live …

While you are at it why not completely get rid of the legal system. Get rid of the Courts, Judges, and Lawyers. Instead when your arrested for murder, rape whatever all you do is ‘swear on your loved ones life’ that you didn’t do it. If not you go to jail.

Make an actual point or go away.

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by absolute? NAME on February 11, 2021, 3:26 pm, in reply to "Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

You my poster are an absolute coward..

TM60+

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by T.K. on February 11, 2021, 3:26 pm, in reply to "Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

Hypocrite 50+ is in water way over his head. Find your way to a ladder and slither out to safety.

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by philthy on February 11, 2021, 4:15 pm, in reply to "Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

#STOP THE STUPID

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by No TM60 that would be you on February 11, 2021, 4:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

Here the definition of a coward.

He continuously makes FAILED attempts to attack Andy with unsupported made up opinions, all while sitting behind a keyboard and over 2,000 miles away. Then when playing in the same tournament does he walk up to him and tell him what he thinks face to face, man to man?

NO!

Instead of being a man, he turtles and goes away to hide. Now that is the definition of a coward!

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by Elite players on February 11, 2021, 5:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

There are no elite players that read this site. If they were here many would post and shut this theory down.

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by Jack Dorsey on February 11, 2021, 7:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

I'd start a with a maximum characters per post limit. 🤪

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by Kimster on February 11, 2021, 9:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

Your full of shit TK, a lot of major players are on here as aliases! Just saying...

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by T.K. on February 12, 2021, 12:30 am, in reply to "Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

Get your posters straight, Lil' Kim! I never once suggested that there were posters on here using aliases. Show me the post?

You ought to be spending more time keeping you daddy off of his niece.

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by J Trammel. TM60+ on February 12, 2021, 11:47 am, in reply to "Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

The next part of your post I would like to address is somehow you put Aaron and bonds in the same sentence as GOAT...

Hank lived through being a black man in the jim crow south...death threats ... verbal abuse, KKK and all... yet he played and represented himself and the game in a honorable way...

Barry raised in black athlete priveledge in the SF bay area spit on the game from the start... maybe look into how bonds treated teammates, fans, sport casters, coaches and charities... Ask the Pirates about bonds not signing a bat to fundraiser for workers killed at their park...

No... bonds can never be seen as a GOAT. unless you spell it “small letter” goat

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by Mr.E on February 12, 2021, 9:48 pm, in reply to "Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

You ever think Bonds character issues made him who he was? Also, i could "swear on my loved ones" and lie my ass off. It doesn't mean shit to many. You're only playing to the fear of your higher power with your swearing. I'm pretty sure lightning won't strike you the minute you lie, after "swearing on your loved ones". Another character thing.

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by bl02 on February 13, 2021, 11:26 am, in reply to "Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

Invader was charged, pled self-defense, and was acquitted.

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by Dr Feelgood on February 13, 2021, 2:30 pm, in reply to "Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

Man i rolled one and had a couple twisted teas reading this thread very good, TMtoddler+ scrambling on his replies swear on your love ones to funny

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by Jeff P on February 13, 2021, 5:08 pm, in reply to "Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

Hey Tim,

Both deaths (Three Rivers in 1971 and PNC Park 2009) came way before and way after Barry Bonds played for the Pirates. Suggest you use google before posting stupid comments like that. Oh wait, you do it every freaking time you post something on here

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by Carlos Colon on February 14, 2021, 9:14 am, in reply to "Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

I wasn't about to give Bruiser Brody ownership to the World Wrestling Council, so Invader took care of it.

Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+

Posted by Lol on February 14, 2021, 6:15 pm, in reply to "Re: Would like an honest explanation from TM60+"

You call out the old man geezer and he either ignores all points, or he disappears and starts new threads.

How bout we all just ignore everything that cockroach posts and hopefully he’ll take the hint he’s an idiot and no one cares about anythjng that comes from his finger tips, since it’s the only way he can communicate, since in person, he’s proven he hides and stays quiet like a little biatch.

« Back to index

1615

[ The Old Scout Message Board ]