The Old Scout Message Board

Roster Setup

Posted by IMO on December 8, 2020, 10:06 am

We all agree that All Major Players aren't created equal. Yet all "elite" and "major" players are classified the same. So does this need changed??

Re: Roster Setup

Posted by DW on December 8, 2020, 10:46 am, in reply to "Roster Setup"

This has been discussed in the past and is a legitimate question.

But it comes down to, do you create another list which will be controversial who is on it and who isn't, when Elite players for the most part only play on Major teams which have unlimited roster points? So the new list is never actually used?

Re: Roster Setup

Posted by Joe Watcher on December 8, 2020, 2:59 pm, in reply to "Re: Roster Setup"

No conference classification.

Top 16 go to MWS

17-32 AA worlds

no lists needed and only on field results matter for how the world is decided

its so simple, its perfect (until the guys writing the checks see it and realize they don't have a prayer of winning a MWS)

Re: Roster Setup

Posted by Biscuit 22 on December 8, 2020, 5:59 pm, in reply to "Re: Roster Setup"

Yes add elite major list - add more watch list people too the major list and add more watch list people as well .

Yes it won’t affect the major teams really cause of unlimited points , but it will create more major teams , more AA teams and more A teams cause more people on the lists , harder it is to build a team and stay under the point restrictions .

If you really want change with adding an major elite list , restrict major teams to say 25 points total . if elite players are worth 2 points each, that would give a major team possibility of having 12 elite major guys on there roster, but also would restrict them from doing what ressy did last year and have a full team of major class players sitting in the bench ). They would have decide if they wanted 12 elite major guys , or maybe balance it out with say 10 elite , 4 major for a deeper bench . Would make them have to think more when building the team on how they want to spend there points, rather than just buying everyone and keeping them off other teams .

If you point limited the major teams , you would free up more major class players for maybe that boarder line AA/major team to make the Jump to major because now they can grab the talented players that were rotting on the bench last year like the hags, ellwanger, reck, Briggs, etc - those guys going to a top AA team from year prior would help close the gap to the elite major teams . You would in turn get more major teams year in and year out , as well as the trickle down affect would make
More A teams jump to AA, build the upper program and close the gap from each level .

Doesn’t make any sense to restrict every division in softball except for one ! The major elite teams that spend the most money will still spend the most money and get the best of the best elite guys and still be the favorites- that would not change , only thing that would change is the gap between those 2 teams and every other major team trying to catch them . And the closer you make that gap, the healthier your upper program in softball is .

Re: Roster Setup

Posted by 555 on December 8, 2020, 6:29 pm, in reply to "Re: Roster Setup"

Available players don’t make more major teams, more money makes more major teams.

Re: Roster Setup

Posted by But on December 8, 2020, 7:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Roster Setup"

Wouldn’t you see teams 13-16 lose on purpose to be the 1 seed in AA instead of last in major? The incentives to be top 16 would have to prevent the sandbagging and game throwing

Re: Roster Setup

Posted by sounds great but on December 9, 2020, 5:47 am, in reply to "Re: Roster Setup"

you want more major teams you need more sponsors. As you could see some sponsors are taking their money and combining with another sponsor. Players at that level want to get paid well some rightfully so but you need sponsors willing to pay that money.

Re: Roster Setup

Posted by Biscuit22 on December 9, 2020, 7:58 am, in reply to "Re: Roster Setup"

The reason those sponsors are combining to form the big major teams and not doing it on their own is because of the divide gap between Dan smith and ressy and everyone else .

Because those two teams can grab 15+ of the best players each team . The other big sponsors team up to try and pool the money to compete with those two teams . If the gap wasn’t so big between them and everyone else the sponsors wouldn’t need to team up ....

Believe me Mark mpt said he would never go major until they capped points on the major teams ( even though he is going major this year despite that ) . Mark is like a lot of other sponsors - it’s his team , his money , his way . He doesn’t want to ever have to combine with any other sponsors and give up any say so in his team .

There are other sponsors out there that might not be as extreme as him in that regard, but if they felt they could now get some very talented guys that fell off the big two teams because usssa cap the points allowed , than they would probably run there own team and pick up those talented players that DS and ressy had to release and go major and compete with them .

Sponsors off top of my head that would POSSIBLY have major teams that currently don’t if points were capped-

-pure
- sonnys
- Bay Area
Xtreme
Nightmare ( might entice Nolan to come back )
Backman
Scene

Hell if you end up getting 1 or 2 more major team it’s a win! Better for the game

Re: Roster Setup

Posted by Joe Watcher on December 9, 2020, 8:04 am, in reply to "Re: Roster Setup"

According to everyone on here.......no.

They are there to play hard and making the major is a big deal and should be a big deal, and in such a word the conference would probably incentivize making the major as well.

Re: Roster Setup

Posted by dan smith on December 9, 2020, 9:00 am, in reply to "Re: Roster Setup"

is in a league of their own. The amount of money they throw around is crazy. But I understand because they have it. Ressy not even close to what dan smith spends. Also you had seth go to ressy and he prob money wise top#3 sponsor. Pure couldn't get any players. Nobody wanted to play with them. Sonny's don't be surprised if they go major. If sonny's bat does well he will throw the big money around also. I understand mark is trying to develop some young guys and have some big names. If mark was approached by a big sponsor you don't think he would do it? Depending on sponsor I'm sure he would. The problem is these sponsors don't want to spend this money and then at the end of the year guys are leaving for the next best thing. I also get players points when sponsors just fold. I get what you are saying by capping it but then you need more sponsors because more teams and I don't think you get more sponsors. FYI tony from scene is done.

Re: Roster Setup

Posted by USSSA FAN on December 9, 2020, 10:45 am, in reply to "Re: Roster Setup"

maybe these "elites" should realize they don't need to ask for $50K or whatever some of them get. what happened to the good ol' days of having your flights, rooms and rental cars paid for to travel around playing the game you love!?!? the softball world is so small and all these titles only mean something to us playing the game. Do customers really do business with Dan Smith because he sponsors a MAJOR softball team and has won the WS before?? I ump and most league guys have no idea there is even a tourney world out there.

Re: Roster Setup

Posted by USSSA FAN on December 9, 2020, 11:19 am, in reply to "Re: Roster Setup"

If these few sponsors keep giving it you can't blame the players.

Re: Roster Setup

Posted by USSSA FAN on December 9, 2020, 11:41 am, in reply to "Re: Roster Setup"

I understand that 100%

Re: Roster Setup

Posted by Thinker on December 9, 2020, 12:55 pm, in reply to "Re: Roster Setup"

All this overthinking has to be one of the reasons we ended up with 7 different divisions for grown ass mens softball.

Re: Roster Setup

Posted by Biscuit22 on December 9, 2020, 2:12 pm, in reply to "Re: Roster Setup"

Mark has already been approached to combine many times with other sponsors - mark is and only wants to be a 1 man show - why you think he started Juno ??

As far as needing more money and more sponsors to get more major teams let’s say this - you add the elite tag , you add more major players to major list , you add more watch list guys - over all more people count as points when building a team . You cap major teams at 25 points and now guys that were rotting on bench of top team , now have to be released .

There are 4 major teams ( smith, ressy, bad drawn , Juno )

Said released guys of course are going to be asking for big dollars as they are used too and yes the borderline AA sponsor probably ain’t willing to give them what they want to get these guys and make the Jump to major .. so now what happens it’s oct and these dudes are wanting 25 grand or more and none of the borderline sponsors are willing to drop another 75k into the team to get these guys and go major as you saying what will happen . But what happens after oct???? What happens when it’s now January and these guys that wanted 25 grand to play still don’t have a team ? Do they just not play next year cause they didn’t get anyone to give them 25 grand ?? Hell no they don’t - all of a sudden they start bringing there weekend number way down to a more reasonable number - now that borderline sponsor that wasn’t willing to drop another 75-100k into his team can get those same guys for much less and now he gets them cheaper and is able to field a major team that can compete , for not much more than he was going to spend to run his AA team .

Over more people that are worth points - more points people available after the major teams fill the rosters out , harder it is to build that AA team and might make those sponsors grab the best talent they can and jump to major because now they can get some studs that fell through the cracks because major teams are capped and close the talent gap between the top 2 teams and the other major teams .

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