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Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by 1A Advancement on 10/2/2025, 8:56 am

Here is a document on my findings of the 1A Advancement Rule. It is a critique of the rule itself and its inequitable nature. Some data and charts are included. I'd be interested in hearing (or seeing, in this case) what you think of the rule and its purpose. This has been submitted to UIL for a Rule Change.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_zwIxafDyRA1VQsZhQcNyxiSl_w-ghz7zS1vQAiwzDM/edit?usp=sharing

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by Cool report on 10/7/2025, 6:52 pm, in reply to "Document for UIL Rule Change"

That's a lot of stuff to digest! I recommend reducing it when submitting it to your region.

Easiest solution is to grade more to the rubric. This will produce lower band rating overall and it won't feel good but 1A division stays.

Toughest thing to do would be to add an area contest, prelims only for 1A. That sounds logistically difficult.

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by me on 10/3/2025, 3:57 pm, in reply to "Document for UIL Rule Change"

I've got to admit that conversations like this make me want to see 1A back in the 2A contest. Problem solved. I suggest you figure this out amicably by calling each other across the state or be aware that you might just see UIL step in to fix this issue in a way you don't want to see happen.

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by Me on 10/4/2025, 3:48 pm, in reply to "Re: Document for UIL Rule Change"

Cool. 3A and 4A combine and 5A/6A.

If you're not in the situation, why does it bother you?

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by Difference on 10/5/2025, 10:39 am, in reply to "Re: Document for UIL Rule Change"

1A issues affect about 154 schools (that have football) statewide - and by your own admission, about a total of 30-40 bands over a multi-year period.

There are 247 6A, 250 5A, 200 4A, and 201 3A schools with football, and therefore marching bands.

This is a false equivalency.

Complaining that three(!) schools don't get the same advancement as others because of the rules .. well, again, there are bands that don't *make* Area Finals in some areas that would win Area Finals in other, weaker areas.

The system will never be perfect. But grinding this axe makes me think more about sour grapes than about it being for the kids.

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by nope on 10/15/2025, 4:12 pm, in reply to "Re: Document for UIL Rule Change"

The false equivalency is actually coming from you. No where in the previous post does anyone say a word about 30-40 bands over a multi-year period. Just say that you're against small schools and call it a day.

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by Difference on 10/16/2025, 8:08 am, in reply to "Re: Document for UIL Rule Change"

Did you .. read .. the document from OP?

There are 96 total bands participating in Regionals at the 1A level over the three years surveyed. Divide by three years surveyed, that's 30-40 bands a year. I know math is hard, but come on.

I'm not against small schools. I'm against a free pass to the SMC just because you happen to attend a tiny school in one of three regions in the state.

Adding 2 bands here, 3 bands there, and soon the SMC becomes a five day long contest. It's already too long, with finals finishing after midnight at times.

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by Yeah... on 10/17/2025, 8:55 am, in reply to "Re: Document for UIL Rule Change"

...the problem with your argument is that the "Judges Preference" aspect has only been in effect a couple of years. When they went to 1A Region to SMC, every 1A band getting a 1 advanced...period.

How many bands appeared at 1A prelims? 18? No more than 20; which is your average small school area lineup.

So, no, going back to all 1st Division 1A schools advancing isn't going to break the system.

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by nope on 10/16/2025, 5:06 pm, in reply to "Re: Document for UIL Rule Change"

You replied...to...the previous poster and made your claim. You did not reply to the OP. I know reading is hard, but come on. Yeah, you're against small schools or have sour grapes because your band never goes to the SMC. Also, I'm not sure what math classes you took, but 96 divided by 3 does not equal "30-40."

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by And... on 10/17/2025, 8:51 am, in reply to "Re: Document for UIL Rule Change"

It equals 32...so while he could have been more accurate, the answer is within the range provided.

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by TYB Host on 10/16/2025, 8:51 am, in reply to "Re: Document for UIL Rule Change"
Board Administrator

You think earning a 1 as a 1A band is easy? It ain't. If a band earns a 1, they definitely deserve to make the trip to the Alamodome. BTW, who goes later if the 1A contest has a lot of bands?

That's right - the 1A finals.

Tim

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by Difference on 10/17/2025, 7:49 am, in reply to "Re: Document for UIL Rule Change"

Earning a 1 as a 1A band is exactly as difficult as earning a 1 as an inner city show style band - and none of THOSE schools get an automatic trip to the SMC for earning a 1. They get to go to area and place dead last against the big spending suburbs.

There's no SWAC/MEAC show style state marching contest. Why not? There's one for military marching after all - and your only qualification there is to make a 1 at Region.

Again - this seems like it isn't about the kids, it's about directors wanting to say they made SMC.

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by Uhh... on 10/17/2025, 9:01 am, in reply to "Re: Document for UIL Rule Change"

...you are trying to move the goal posts. Stay on topic.

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by TYB Host on 10/17/2025, 7:58 am, in reply to "Re: Document for UIL Rule Change"
Board Administrator

So, maybe your problem isn't about 1A - its about military has its own contest and show band/SWAC/HBCU style doesn't. From what I know there is a discussion regarding this very thing.

Now, let's stay on topic. Adding maybe 3 or 4 bands to 1A SMBC will only affect 1A championships time - agree?

Tim

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by WBB on 10/6/2025, 11:55 am, in reply to "Re: Document for UIL Rule Change"

Why should 1A have to eliminate schools from advancing when the State Military contest does not?

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by Snerk on 10/14/2025, 5:27 pm, in reply to "Re: Document for UIL Rule Change"

1A schools can compete as a military band and advance all they like

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by OP on 10/6/2025, 9:58 am, in reply to "Re: Document for UIL Rule Change"

I agree the system won’t ever be perfect, but I think small-school equity deserves thoughtful attention — not because we expect special treatment, but because every student’s opportunity to grow and compete matters, not just those at large schools.

I'm still waiting on someone to give me an actual critique of my data, not just a personal opinion. Prove to me why I’m wrong — I’m open to that conversation. But when 7 out of 54 qualifying 1A bands were denied advancement over the last three cycles, that’s about 13%. It’s fair to ask whether that rule really reflects merit, or just geography.

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by OP on 10/3/2025, 5:21 pm, in reply to "Re: Document for UIL Rule Change"

Really? There is a 1A and 2A champion listed every year on the archive website, so how did that work before?

Note that I did not intend to attack or mean harm to any band or region, etc. I wanted to share my thoughts/data on this and gather feedback on what others think. The general consensus may be to "just deal with it," and if so, maybe I should.

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by Warhawk on 10/5/2025, 4:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Document for UIL Rule Change"

There were only 5 classifications with 1A D2 being the schools with an enrollment of 104.9 or less. 1A D1 was what is now 2A D2.

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by Lee Brossette on 10/2/2025, 2:14 pm, in reply to "Document for UIL Rule Change"

Well, I am the director of one of the three bands that achieved a superior rating and did not advance last year. I did tell my students that a 1-1-2 wasn't going to advance. That's what we and the other bands made 1-1-1 and we got to watch the 1A prelims and finals. How is it fair for us to have to compete for a slot at state when one of the qualifiers was the only 1A school in their region. They did make 1-1-1, but if they had come to our region contest, they may not have made it, even with a 1-1-1 and we would still have been at home.

Either everyone has to compete for a spot at state or it goes back to the earn a superior rating to advance.

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by Me on 10/2/2025, 12:34 pm, in reply to "Document for UIL Rule Change"

There are plenty of bands in every classification every year who do not make the SMC that WOULD make the SMC if they were competing in a different area. So to day it's all based on merit and not geography is not totally the case. No matter the classification, someone is getting left out. Sucks, but that's how it works with an activity that advances on subjective means.

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by Lee on 10/2/2025, 7:10 pm, in reply to "Re: Document for UIL Rule Change"

But the rule in question does not apply to every region, just 6, 7, and 16.

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by Point of order on 10/3/2025, 3:08 pm, in reply to "Re: Document for UIL Rule Change"

The rule in question DOES apply to every region. It just only AFFECTS Regions 6, 7, and 16.

Region 20 for example usually has zero competing 1A schools in it. That doesn't mean that the rule doesn't apply to them. If a downtown Dallas charter school with an enrollment of 200 kids began competing in UIL events, they would have the application of the rule as well.

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by Cloud 99 on 10/13/2025, 4:47 pm, in reply to "Re: Document for UIL Rule Change"

A School of 200 would be in 2A not 1A and 2A D1 at that!

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by OP on 10/2/2025, 3:46 pm, in reply to "Re: Document for UIL Rule Change"

You are correct! There are plenty of bands in other classifications. We are talking about 7 out of 54 (that have been cut), though. All in Regions 6, 7, and 16.

I'm not sure if this is a critique or just a callout for unideal wording.

If you'd like, I'd be happy to discuss this further. It's interesting getting others' perspectives!

Re: Document for UIL Rule Change

Posted by Lee Brossette on 10/2/2025, 2:57 pm, in reply to "Re: Document for UIL Rule Change"

My issue is and has always been that Regions 6, 7, and 16 are the only regions that this rule effects.

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