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What gives?

Posted by CSR data on 4/4/2025, 10:14 am

2024 CSR in a certain region: about 70% of the bands got 1s on stage and SR

2025 CSR in the same region: about 35% of the bands got 1s on stage and SR

Almost all of the same groups

Almost all of the same head directors

Is this much variation year to year typical? Many folks very frustrated with their ratings.

Re: What gives?

Posted by Experienced Dude on 4/14/2025, 9:38 pm, in reply to "What gives?"

with over a half century of experience of taking bands to "evaluation"[hate that term} I've experienced contests where going in you knew only 3-5 would get a Div 1. There were 30+ bands. That was what the district wanted. I have also gone to contests where 80% got 1s. I NEVER BEGRUDGE ANYONE GETTING A 1 I have also placed first runner up in the Honor Band with a tape that was given a 2nd div. We try to be consistent across the state and panels but sometimes it just happens. There are no enzones to cross or home plates to get to. It's music and will always be subjective in scoring

Re: What gives?

Posted by Happy on 4/5/2025, 1:20 pm, in reply to "What gives?"

UIL scores overtime have been inflated, If more than a third of groups get sweapstakes at a contest, it is a tell tale sign that the judges are being leniant.

There are exception regions of course but overall there should be a lot more variation at contests.

With the new judge sheet system, judges are being led to the rating by the subcategory descriptions.
Ratings are becoming more accurate to the sheet and therefore causing widespread rating deflation across the state.

Re: What gives?

Posted by Respectfully on 4/7/2025, 8:21 am, in reply to "Re: What gives?"

You do know of course that there are dozens if not hundreds of schools that *don't participate in UIL* that would be at the bottom end of the bell curve, correct?

Many inner city schools, small schools, and rebuilding programs choose to sit out of UIL rather than attend and earn a 4 or a 5 - or at best a 3. Some of those inner city schools have a NV ensemble as well - and if the Varsity doesn't go, the NV definitely isn't going either.

I'm not so sure the judges are being lenient as it is there's a level of performance inherent within a UIL ensemble.

It's not out of line to see scores drift toward the upper end more consistently when the schools that would earn the middle and lower scores simply don't show up.

Re: What gives?

Posted by Hmmmm..... on 4/7/2025, 8:05 am, in reply to "Re: What gives?"

If bands are meeting the standard, why does it matter how many groups are earning a sweepstakes? Theoretically, every band at contest can earn a sweepstakes, just like they can all theoretically earn a 5.

Either they meet the standard, or they don't. There shouldn't be any "variation" at contests generated artificially.

Re: What gives?

Posted by Yup on 4/7/2025, 12:14 pm, in reply to "Re: What gives?"

I agree…I would love to give every band a first division when I judge. I hate giving a 3. But there’s no limit to how many can get a first division. There are some regions where way more than 30% of the bands are first division bands.

Re: What gives?

Posted by Young TMAA on 4/5/2025, 9:23 am, in reply to "What gives?"

A single judge, or set of instructions, I feel like can easily start to sway a panel to the harsher side. When you have a region secretary say, 'You have five ratings, and you can use them ALL' for instance? I know sometimes there will be a voice in the room griping before a contest about how they were just at one, and there were too many ones given... Or sometimes if there's one experienced judge that's low, the other younger ones may feel like they're being too nice and come down to try and match. That tends to result in a lot of rainbows if that's the dynamic.

With the new system having judges select the correct descriptor for each part of the rubric, there's also potential to sway people to be more rubric-focused and less on just a feeling?

We've seen it in our region where one contest is the only one that's not Santa Claus, and is the blood bath instead. I suspect people are also finding their way back from being gracious with COVID. You also have a number of judges out there who retired before COVID and didn't look kindly at anyone giving excuses either.

Re: What gives?

Posted by Just a dude on 4/4/2025, 8:28 pm, in reply to "What gives?"

Over programming

Re: What gives?

Posted by Mithrandir on 4/4/2025, 1:06 pm, in reply to "What gives?"

The judges right? It depends a lot on the judges (good or bad). Perhaps last year many of those 1s weren't deserved. Or maybe the opposite is true. I was recently at a (MS) contest and felt that the judges were VERY forgiving. THe point being that there is a lot of variation on what a "1" is even if there is a rubric and training and, and, and...
Usually though things will average out in the end. A 2 (or even a 3) here and there isn't the end of the world (most of time).

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