I have already seen many posts concerning summer marching band and hiring techs. Why in the world are there people starting summer band camp in the middle of July?? (July 13) This is crazy to me!! Kids (and us!!!!) need a break! When will directors stop trying to keep up with the Jones’s?????????
Re: Why
Posted by me on 3/13/2025, 1:56 pm, in reply to "Why"
If we're getting paid in 12 month contracts I see no problem with starting before August. But, I see your point on the requirements placed on the kids. I have had kids complain in the past about the band not starting sooner than what I had planned. There are places that expect the band hall to be busy right after the 4th of July. So, I get where you're coming from but it really depends where you are. If people expect you to do something you do it or take a risk of not being employed. Also, with the new found lack of appreciation for public education in general, get ready for lots more inconvenient asks from schools in regards to directors. It's about to get really ugly out there. Everyone needs to pray and lobby for music education before we get doged.
Re: Why
Posted by Waavy on 3/18/2025, 11:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Why"
Technically educators are payed for their contract days. For example, your contract may be 180 days and someone else’s may be 196 days. Educators are payed a set amount per day. The salary is then divided by the 12 months of the year…many districts divided the salary by 24, so teachers get two checks a month. We are not PAID in the summer…we merely draw the money owed us from the previous school year. So, if you are putting in extra days outside of that contract-you’re working for FREE.
Re: Why
Posted by Respectfully on 3/12/2025, 8:41 pm, in reply to "Why"
When I was in high school in the late 1900s, we started band on August 1st.
But, back then, school started the third week of August.
Other schools near us started as early as August 2nd - that meant they got literally one day of summer band camp, since the rule previously was a hard start date of Aug 1.
Then they passed a law that said school could only start in the fourth week of August. This persisted for about 15 years, and most people started band on the last couple days of July for rookies and full band August 1st.
Then District of Innovation ideas took over, and now we're back to starting school at the beginning of August. The STAAR test is still in April - so schools want more instructional days BEFORE the test.
Want to get kids out of the heat? Get rid of District of Innovation. Bring back the mandatory start date. The tourism industry will thank you - they're the ones who pushed for it in the first place.
Re: Why
Posted by Maybe on 3/12/2025, 7:53 pm, in reply to "Why"
Because the district pays us to work those days.
Re: Why
Posted by Not me!!! on 3/14/2025, 11:17 am, in reply to "Re: Why"
Even as a head 6A high school band director, I and my two assistants were on 10 month contracts. We did get stipends, however stipends can't legally go beyond a contract. I don't think any lawyer for the district could justify and win making band directors do 4th of July parades (and associated rehearsals) and summer band, no matter when it started before the legal start of our contracts, which was the first day of inservice...about a week before the first day of school.
With that said, we did what we needed to do. You could win the above battle, but you would lose the war.
Re: Why
Posted by Beagle on 3/14/2025, 2:11 pm, in reply to "Re: Why"
"Extra duties as assigned."
Yes, they can.
Re: Why
Posted by BDSO on 3/14/2025, 7:40 pm, in reply to "Re: Why"
Well...sort of. If the expectations for the stipend are undefined, then it is only for duties during the contract length. For duties outside of the contract length, one of two things need to happen. First, extra days must be added to the contract that would cover all worked needed to accomplish the duties. For example, if you were required to perform at a 4th of July parade, the number of days would need to include the day of the parade plus any required prep time. Second, is to add a separate stipend or extra form of compensation. This happens often for teachers who are asked to work during the summer to write curriculum. They are often paid an hour rate for a certain period of time or a specific amount for that time. This is what my assistant and I were told by both TCTA and ATPE (we have different liability insurances) a couple of years ago when we were told we had to help with HS summer band (we are MS directors) without compensation. The district (mainly the HS director) was claiming that it was part of our stipend and we do not have extended contracts. Even if they do offer extra compensation (not extra days) you can refuse as you are not on contract yet. You are only required to work days during your contract length. Now, once your contract starts the district can assign you any thing they want.
Re: Why
Posted by No on 3/14/2025, 5:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Why"
That is not a catch all phrase! Contracts have start and end dates, period. “Extra duties as assigned” means you’re helping on STAAR days, you’re doing hall/cafe/bus ramp duty, staying late/showing early for faculty meetings, etc. It does *not* mean you are free labor.
Re: Why
Posted by Uhh... on 3/14/2025, 3:17 pm, in reply to "Re: Why"
That's only during the contract term. So as "not me" explained it...no they can't.
Re: Why
Posted by Beagle on 3/14/2025, 8:34 pm, in reply to "Re: Why"
And if they tell you, prior to you signing the contract, that said parade is an expectation, and is part of your duties?
Good luck getting a renewal if you don't do it.
Re: Why
Posted by False on 3/15/2025, 11:17 am, in reply to "Re: Why"
You *can not* be required to do *anything* when you are off contract. Further, you *can not* be non-renewed solely for an extracurricular activity.
For your own sake, please brush up on how your teacher contract works. If you are being treated this way by your admin, you have rights to not do things you are not contractually obligated to do. If you are putting this expectation on other directors at your school, you are violating their rights to not do things they are not contractually obligated to do.
Re: Why
Posted by Beagle on 3/15/2025, 8:48 pm, in reply to "Re: Why"
For your own sake, realize that:
1. We have no collective bargaining rights in this state,
2. We're an at-will employment state,
3. My scenario described someone on a probationary contract, who can be non-renewed for any reason including no reason at all,
and
4. They can and will manufacture a reason with folks on term contracts, but you KNOW what the real reason is.
The whole "they can't fire you for extracurricular performance" isn't at all why football coaches are non-renewed all over the state every November, and why basketball coaches choose to "move on" in February, absolutely not. And if you believe this, I have some beachfront property to sell you outside Tempe while the Rangers take spring training.
It isn't at all why people are put on a growth plan and non-renewed come UIL season and a band gets a 2. And yes, this happens.
Whether we like it or not, until 1 is fixed, nothing else matters. On paper, we have rights. In reality, we have nothing.
In my community, there isn't an expectation of a band at the July 4 parade, because the town knows that it's summer vacation for the kids. So for me, it's a moot point.
However, it's plenty common enough elsewhere - and no judge in this state will find in your favor, nor will any panel at TEA reinstate your job if you file a state-level grievance.
And even if they do, then said director would have precisely one year before they were nonrenewed as described in point 4 above.
These are the questions you ask in an interview and decide if it's worth it to you. If you apply for a job in a community that has a July 4 parade, know to ask. Period.
Re: Why
Posted by Wow! on 3/18/2025, 12:21 pm, in reply to "Re: Why"
You’re really standing firm, needlessly, on this hill.
For your own sake, realize that:
1. We have no collective bargaining rights in this state, —-I realize that. However, contracts issued through ISDs are very much standardized across the state providing an equal playing field on what the terms are. Those terms are non-negotiable in either direction.
2. We're an at-will employment state, —-49 states, plus D.C. employ “at-will” employment, we’re not special! This, however, does not mean you can be fired on a whim. There are also protections going both ways in “at-will” employment.
3. My scenario described someone on a probationary contract, who can be non-renewed for any reason including no reason at all, —-You moved the goalpost here. This is the first mention of “probationary contract.” Again, however, unless the July 4th parade, per your example, is included in the contact dates, there is no requirement to perform in such parade. Also, by the time summer rolls around, the contract for the upcoming year has been offered and signed. There is not an administrator worth their salt that would rescind that contract or non-renew the next year for an event that happens off of contract.
and
4. They can and will manufacture a reason with folks on term contracts, but you KNOW what the real reason is. —-My resignation would be in before they had a chance. Again, not an admin worth working with.
The whole "they can't fire you for extracurricular performance" isn't at all why football coaches are non-renewed all over the state every November, and why basketball coaches choose to "move on" in February, absolutely not. And if you believe this, I have some beachfront property to sell you outside Tempe while the Rangers take spring training. —-Head FB coaches are, usually, on an admin contract and serve as a campus/district AD. That’s an entirely different can of worms. Assistant coaches have stipends tied to a classroom position. Their teacher contact has the same protections as any other. That said, if they are told they will no longer be an assistant coach, they usually move on to a job where they can be. Depending on the district, basketball coaches follow the same pattern. They may be Assistant Campus AD or Girls AD.
It isn't at all why people are put on a growth plan and non-renewed come UIL season and a band gets a 2. And yes, this happens. —-Again, NR or growth plan for getting AN EXCELLENT rating at UIL?! Here’s my resignation. Your campus/district culture is toxic!
Whether we like it or not, until 1 is fixed, nothing else matters. On paper, we have rights. In reality, we have nothing. —-You have what you are willing to stand up for or what you’re willing to accept.
In my community, there isn't an expectation of a band at the July 4 parade, because the town knows that it's summer vacation for the kids. So for me, it's a moot point. —-It’s a moot point, yet here you are…
However, it's plenty common enough elsewhere - and no judge in this state will find in your favor, nor will any panel at TEA reinstate your job if you file a state-level grievance. —-It’s not as common as you paint it to be and, yes, someone absolutely would win a case such as you mention.
And even if they do, then said director would have precisely one year before they were nonrenewed as described in point 4 above. —-Again, not an admin I’d want to be around.
These are the questions you ask in an interview and decide if it's worth it to you. If you apply for a job in a community that has a July 4 parade, know to ask. Period. —-I absolutely agree with this! I took a few interviews this summer and asked that very question about “community events.” I was either told there weren’t any to worry about or that it wasn’t something that was an expectation of the program.
Keep on keeping on!
Re: Why
Posted by How on 3/12/2025, 1:06 pm, in reply to "Why"
How does someone else's summer band schedule impact your program?
Re: Why
Posted by Mr. Dude on 3/12/2025, 12:08 pm, in reply to "Why"
Some of use start school like 2nd week of August, and would also like to take off to go to TBA.
Re: Why
Posted by BDSO on 3/12/2025, 10:58 am, in reply to "Why"
Well, our district starts August 7 next year with inservice starting July 28. If you want to get any meaningful work done before the start of school, you need to start early. I agree if you are starting later in August you shouldn't be starting in mid-July, but some have no choice.
