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Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by Clarity on 10/11/2024, 1:20 pm

True or false - directors who make a 2 at marching band should look for another job.

I feel like it is time to move on to something less soul killing.

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by Curious on 10/16/2024, 4:19 pm, in reply to "Second Division in Marching Band"

Absolutely not! If a student makes a B in your class, should they quit the program?

Remember...a contest rating is a snapshot of how the adjudicators perceived the band's one performance on one day under one set of circumstances. Use the feedback the judges give and move on. If the director recognizes some areas in which improvement can be made, keep working on those skills whether it is with the band or personal growth.

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by HCBD on 10/15/2024, 11:02 am, in reply to "Second Division in Marching Band"

Be Careful - This is an expectation that we have put on ourselves. A lot of people would say if you don't earn a 1 in some districts you will be let go but those are few and far between. Even then, most people think that, but in reality it is not true. I once earned a 2 that broke an over decade long streak of 1s and thought I was cooked, turns out we were just rebuilding and a few years later I was knocking on the door of State Marching Contest.

Earning a 2 (or 3 or 4 for that matter) is definitely not the end of the world. I have taken two schools to the State Marching Contests and have had 2s and 3s in my career.

If you break a streak like I did, you will probably earn some head turns from fellow directors but eh, who cares. Do the right things, work hard, things will improve. The only expectations that matter are the ones you put on yourself, if you think earning a 1 is the only acceptable outcome then maybe you should look at other work, but I doubt it is what is actually expected of you from your community/school. Shake hands, say hello, build relationships, build good culture, and do the right thing. All of these are more important that a Division 1 rating and most of the time focusing on those things leads to division 1 ratings.

Lastly, talk to area band directors. Record full runs at the end of your rehearsals and send them out for feedback. Bring out clinicians if possible. Have fun with your students!

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by Me on 10/15/2024, 7:39 am, in reply to "Second Division in Marching Band"

Abslutely not. I felt for the first several years that I was doomed to make nothing but 2's. Things start to click when you stop focusing so much on it. Now I've had a handful of trips to state marching and a good chance of going again this year. Getting input from those more experienced AND USING THAT INPUT goes a long way but sometimes a 2 happens and it is NOT the end of the world.

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by Mr. Dude on 10/14/2024, 10:26 am, in reply to "Second Division in Marching Band"

I've made two 2's at UIL in the last 10 years. the following year both times we were area finalists, in a tough area. You can build a program...but some years won't be as great as others. Sometimes...the soundboard won't turn on. I'm not gonna quit over it.

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by C’mon on 10/13/2024, 11:15 am, in reply to "Second Division in Marching Band"

Oh, absolutely! Because clearly, one Division 2 rating is all it takes to decide someone’s entire career. Forget the countless hours of teaching, the relationships built with students, or the progress a program has made. If you don’t nail a Division 1 every time, might as well pack it up and find a new gig, right? Or maybe — just maybe — we should remember that band directing is about way more than a number on a score sheet.

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by CentexBD on 10/13/2024, 1:44 am, in reply to "Second Division in Marching Band"

False.

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by Hsdb on 10/12/2024, 10:51 pm, in reply to "Second Division in Marching Band"

False. First analyze why the rating was not where you wanted it. Talk with colleagues you trust and who are honest about what they observe. Make it a habit to see and hear great bands and in the class above. Take notes abd see what you can glean from those performances.

Read your sheets and listen to the recorded comments. What seems to be the biggest criticism? Is it basic tone, execution of the music, marching style? What can you do as a director and with the kids to improve,

Finally it is just a rating for one 7-8 minute performance. Rather than tossing in the towel, sit back and work on a plan to raise the group’s rating.

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by FW24 on 10/16/2024, 3:19 pm, in reply to "Re: Second Division in Marching Band"

It's three judges opinion on one day. Someone might give a two for something as dumb as "I can't give a 1 to a band that doesn't have tuba" (Yes, I've had that). Don't let it get to you......the list of directors who didn't receive at least one 2 in their career is incredibly short.

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by Respectfully on 10/17/2024, 7:42 am, in reply to "Re: Second Division in Marching Band"

I sincerely hope you reported that judge to your region chair and up the line. Their job is to evaluate what's in front of them and what they do hear, not complain about what isn't there.

Get those judges OUT of the system.

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by Answer on 10/12/2024, 8:27 pm, in reply to "Second Division in Marching Band"

False!

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by Uhh on 10/12/2024, 6:23 pm, in reply to "Second Division in Marching Band"

Guess I shoulda quit long ago LOL

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by music lover on 10/12/2024, 12:41 pm, in reply to "Second Division in Marching Band"

As an alternative, you could emphasize marching band less and focus on music education.

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by Um... on 10/14/2024, 12:41 pm, in reply to "Re: Second Division in Marching Band"

One in the same if done correctly.

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by My Take on 10/12/2024, 10:22 am, in reply to "Second Division in Marching Band"

That depends on the statement you are making. Is getting a first division really hard? Well, for some bands it can be. Not everyone has a great feeder/recruitment pattern, great instruments, minimally supportive admin, good parents, and a multitude of things that can easily kneecap a program. Can a director respond correctly and give a band a program they can handle and play at a one? YES! I have seen HBCU style bands take their product to UIL and play it well and get a one. At the end of the day the decisions we make as directors will impact the ability of the program to be successful.

Now, if you think just getting a one is soul killing...that is not the job, it is you. Getting a first division is not soul killing if you are doing the right things by the UIL sheets. I understand some bands are in a rebuild, but every band can get a one even at the non-varsity level. Pick a program your kids can maximize at their skill level and work for great sounds and clean movement. I have seen programs do this after YEARS of terrible ratings. (Northbrook HS 2021 as an example)

Find a grade one show and work on the basics. It CAN be done. Look for a new job? A new job does not fix YOU.

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by If I may… on 10/12/2024, 8:36 am, in reply to "Second Division in Marching Band"

Just some suggestions.

Tried hiring a clinician? Gone over video of your performances to review/fix problems. Gone to area contests/festivals leading up to UIL? Comment sheets usually detail the most problematic areas to address. Sometimes, I know it’s not what you do, it’s what you have to work with. Getting through to those students is the most challenging part. Fundamentals, Fundamentals and more Fundamentals.

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by Wolverine on 10/12/2024, 7:49 am, in reply to "Second Division in Marching Band"

Only if that’s all you get and your admin is not happy. Matching band isn’t everything. Unfortunately, it is one of your highest exposure activities that people aren’t there for (think about that for a minute). Next to commencement, which people are also not there for you.

If you’re doing good work and the kids and community are happy that’s pretty much all you can ask for. Your 3rd clarinets aren’t going to visit you in the home or be at your funeral. Keep a healthy perspective on things.

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by me on 10/11/2024, 7:36 pm, in reply to "Second Division in Marching Band"

If I had that philosophy I wouldn't have enjoyed the fruits of seeing students grow and graduate and become amazing citizens. That's the most important part. Divisions, should be, an aid to help you grow as a professional. It's scary that our reputation is based on the abilities of young adolescents on that one most important run of the season. But, it's also a great learning tool when things both go the wrong way and incredibly well. If I had the philosophy that you mention above I would have eventually missed out on watching two of my own children marching with my band at the UIL State Marching Contest. I would have missed the joy in their eyes when they got to march in state finals. I would've missed the joyful reactions of the children when they achieved their goals and the pride in their eyes when they got those police escorts. I'm glad I didn't quit. I eventually got smart enough to refuse to lose by going and asking every older, successful director how they did what they did and whether they would be willing to help me out with clinics. I'm still learning a lot! Don't give up. Keep persuing that rating. Don't take offense to it. Grow. You got this.

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by Me on 10/11/2024, 5:45 pm, in reply to "Second Division in Marching Band"

False.

I've made a 2 more than once. So have former TMEA presidents.

A 2 isn't the end of your career. Neither's a 3 or a 4 - especially if you and your kids learn from it.

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by Sometimes on 10/11/2024, 4:58 pm, in reply to "Second Division in Marching Band"

Sometimes things happen. Even great programs sometimes falter. A 2 is still technically an 'Excellent' rating.

That being said, this is very much a community expectation. There are communities where if you don't earn that 1 you'll be looking for another job.

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by Nonsense on 10/11/2024, 4:46 pm, in reply to "Second Division in Marching Band"

Definitely not. It's so easy to get wrapped into contest mode during the weeks leading up to contest that we forget the little things that have been getting better, from rising numbers to that one student that can play more than they used to, even if it's just a note.

A two is still excellent.

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by BDSO on 10/14/2024, 4:49 pm, in reply to "Re: Second Division in Marching Band"

Yes, a two is classified as "excellent" according to UIL. But, it really isn't. How many times have we heard (or said), "Ooo, they got a two. What happened" or something to that affect? How often are directors spoken of "disparagingly" (for lack of a better word) behind their back because of twos? How many are passed on when looking for a new position? How many often are parents, admin, the community, and student upset about a two? The point is that while a two is classified as "excellent" by UIL, rarely do we treat it as such. Is that wrong? Yes, but it is the reality that is music in Texas. Football team can have consecutive losing seasons and the kids and coaches walk around like they are the best. We get an "excellent" rating and the everyone sees it as a failure.

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by Exactly on 10/15/2024, 12:02 pm, in reply to "Re: Second Division in Marching Band"

Exactly. "We get an "excellent" rating and everyone sees it as a failure."

It has that power because we give it that power. We worry about what others will think.

Yes, some schools will unfortunately pass up good directors because of a two, but if that school is already aiming for top scores, is that really the place where someone who feels like this is soul sucking needs to go? That's a school that would only add more pressure than it would pride.

Sure, some directors will also talk, but that tells me more about that kind of director rather than the one that got a two or below. If someone is that willing to gossip about something like that, I wouldn't be calling them over for a clinic anytime soon.

We need to start bringing back the meaning of the word excellent.

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by Respectfully on 10/15/2024, 2:45 pm, in reply to "Re: Second Division in Marching Band"

The line forms to the left of FAD and HBD that won't interview people who earn a 2.

Just look at the postings. "Seeking a talented individual with a proven track record of success."

We've done it to ourselves. Winning is everything. Not learning, and damn sure not music. Just winning.

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by Uhh on 10/18/2024, 8:25 am, in reply to "Re: Second Division in Marching Band"

I think you mean most fahbd's wont even interview someone they don't know very well in the first place, right?
But that's a separate conversation

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by MS on 10/16/2024, 8:49 am, in reply to "Re: Second Division in Marching Band"

Once sat in a community band where the director was an FAD. He openly said he doesn't hire anyone who has made a 2.

Mind you, this guy also threw a hissy fit and walked out of rehearsal one day.

So it's ok to walk out of rehearsal, but if you are rebuilding a program or have an off performance and receive a 2, that's where you draw the line?

Re: Second Division in Marching Band

Posted by yes on 10/14/2024, 8:49 am, in reply to "Re: Second Division in Marching Band"

There it is. I was hoping someone would point out the verbage for a 2. It's not "1st division or awful" and frankly, for some programs a 2 is great! But WE have all given it such a negative connotation.

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