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Respect

Posted by Wondering on 3/21/2023, 12:38 pm

How do you gain more respect from the kids without being a demanding jerk about it....?

Re: Respect

Posted by Salt-n-Sugar on 3/24/2023, 3:31 pm, in reply to "Respect"

Start with salt and brief episodes of sugar.

They have to see and hear results. Start with small victories...posture/releases/punctuality, etc.

Re: Respect

Posted by Nick on 3/24/2023, 9:33 am, in reply to "Respect"

I’ve had groups 2 to 3 times the size of schools around me. I’d advise you to be fair and consistent without being soft. Kids want to be good. Be organized and respect their time and emotions. Keep in mind that your expectations of who they will become will become true. Best wishes!

Re: Respect

Posted by Procedures and Expectations on 3/23/2023, 11:40 am, in reply to "Respect"

1. Give students the opportunity to be successful using the procedures you have set up for them. Remind them of the procedures constantly and allow the procedures to dictate the flow of the class. This also creates a comfortable environment for making mistakes, reflecting, and improving.

2. If you have to stop the class to address behavior issues, get their attention and GO as quickly as possible. Do not spend time giving them the talk about behavior. Chances are, they have heard it before in other classes. Make your class a place for productive learning and growth.

3. At the end of class, thank them for their time, and reflect on what they have accomplished in the lesson. This will allow them to consider their own growth and end on a positive note.

4. Relax and get out of your own head when in rehearsal, what may look like disrespect may actually be confusion about content.

Re: Respect

Posted by Depends on 3/22/2023, 2:25 pm, in reply to "Respect"

Depends on what you mean.

Respect for the process of learning music? Respect for rehearsal etiquette? Respect for their peers in their commitment to the ensemble and their craft, (this is a whole different discussion because I've seen a lot of directors NOT respect the students and their time causing more problems than the kids)? Or respect to you as the educator in front of the classroom?

Short answer is being calm, quiet, and consistent. Don't lose your cool, blow up, or make exceptions that can be construed as favoritism. Be prepared with a plan and do what you say you are going to do. Sometimes less is more so avoid being wordy or argumentative. Be very matter of fact.

Re: Respect

Posted by one thing on 3/22/2023, 1:59 pm, in reply to "Respect"

You have to build relationships with the students. This is a hard thing for new teachers to understand how to do. If you build good relationships with the students, there won't ever be an issue. They will be more destroyed by your disappointment than any anger you could have. They must know that you care before they will even think about caring back in return. I watched an AD for several years and learned from him on this part of our job. It's amazing what kids will do when they know you honestly care about them.
This does however take some time, most certainly won't happen overnight or over a semester, but working on it now will help in the long haul!!

Re: Respect

Posted by Just me on 3/22/2023, 4:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Respect"

First, to state the obvious, don't ever be sarcastic or condescending. Kids do really dumb stuff sometimes and it's easy to get frustrated and use the wrong tone when addressing them. I say this because this was a bit of a struggle for me when I used to teach middle school.

Don't feel that relaxing your standards and expectations will make kids respect you more. In fact, that will more than likely have the opposite effect. Kids want structure and guidance (even if they claim they don't)

And I think the most important thing is that you have to show kids that you genuinely care about them. If you show an interest in them and in their lives, then when it's time to sit them down and be firm about their behavior or whatever it is that you need to be firm about, they'll trust more that it's coming more from a place of genuine concern over their wellbeing vs you're just being mean and picking on them.

There's always going to be rotten apples and bad attitudes though and you might not always be able to win them all. If you're new to a school, then it makes perfect sense why you would be receiving push back. Keep your expectations high though and over time you'll see a change in attitude. It's definitely going to take time though (and it might depend on certain students leaving your program).

Re: Respect

Posted by Doc Too on 3/21/2023, 9:33 pm, in reply to "Respect"

Young teachers often can't believe that it is impossible to be friends with the kids.

There has to be an authority setting the rules and enforcing them. The sooner you get comfortable taking that role, the sooner you will find ways to be congenial with the students. Not as a friend, but as an important person in the life of every one of them.

Re: Respect

Posted by Relationships on 3/23/2023, 8:37 am, in reply to "Re: Respect"

Don't be their friend and don't be their parent. We often forget both of those. Be a mentor. Be a role model. Be a counselor. Let the parents be parents, whether you like how they parent or not, and you be their band director. I have decades of experience in the classroom and once I had my child I figured out real quick to parent my own and let others parent theirs. And while we often want to claim how many kids don't have parents at home I believe we exaggerate that out of wanting to feel important. When you are 23 and just trying to figure out how to teach and working on getting your own life and finances and relationships in order, trying to parent a 13 year old is probably a little much for you right then and there.

Re: Respect

Posted by BDSO on 3/21/2023, 8:17 pm, in reply to "Respect"

Being a "demanding jerk" is a surefire way to lose respect from the students. Be firm with your expectations but also understanding when they don't meet them. This doesn't mean they can get away with not meeting the expectations, but it does mean that you understand that kids are humans too and have good days and bad days. You also need to be "authentic". Be yourself. I'm weird and goofy. I'm also a nerd and don't take myself too seriously. I embrace this and display it in front of the kids and they in turn respect that and respect. That doesn't mean they all like me, but they do what I ask with little push back. When a kid does push back I reinforce the expectation and give an appropriate consequence. I don't get mad, and I definitely don't take it personally. Remember, "respect" shouldn't mean "fear". Respect isn't gained from anger or being a tyrant. Also, don't confuse being "like" with being "respected". This is a problem that a lot of young teachers (and most classroom teachers) have. Think about how coaches get respect from their players. Do the same thing. This may sound sacrilegious, but we are basically the same as coaches when it comes to building relationships with our students. Treat them with appropriate respect and they will do the same. Be true to your expectations and fair and honest with the kids. They will come around. It won't happen overnight, but work at it and it will happen.

Re: Respect

Posted by MS on 3/21/2023, 6:24 pm, in reply to "Respect"

Just some things I think about in regard to your question:

Finding ways to level with them without blurring boundaries. Sometimes a kid just wants to be heard.

Building relationships - not just learning about them and their background but trying to understand it/them without judgement.

Classroom management - having expectations and boundaries while also commanding them to do what you want instead of demanding them to do what you want. It's more of a leader-like attitude when giving instructions instead of a tyrant.

Re: Respect

Posted by Me on 3/21/2023, 5:47 pm, in reply to "Respect"

It takes time, you must give more respect than you expect to get back in return. This is a really hard one for a lot of people. Plan better and clearly communicate your expectations. Be nice but not a doormat.

Re: Respect

Posted by Mirror Mirror on 3/21/2023, 3:49 pm, in reply to "Respect"

I suppose a good place to start is to ask yourself: what does Respect look like to you?
If a band respects you, if the students respect you, how would you know?
Next question: Do you model that respectful behavior to them? If you want it from them, you need to give it to them as well.
Followed by: Do you hold them accountable for their actions? Are your expectations of them clear and understandable?

For example: I know of a very successful retired director whose band students still respect him and admire his accomplishments. He was very clear about how he expected you to come in to his band hall. If you didn't, he would calmly tell you to go back outside and come back in quietly. He wasn't rude, he just expected you to comply. And he himself would also enter the band area in a calm and collected manner. He didn't allow students to talk while he was directing, and would stop the group and tell them to stop talking, that their conversation was louder than the students who were playing, and he was trying to hear the musicians to help correct their playing. But, he was mindful of the fact that some students have the attention span of a flea on caffeine, and would limit the times he stopped the band, and would limit the number of words he used so the kids spent more time playing and less time sitting. And he knew they needed to let off some steam here and there and would allow them to talk once he was off the podium.

Again: You want "more respect" from your students. How does that look like? Are you modeling and are you holding them accountable for their actions?

Good luck. There are no easy answers.

Re: Respect

Posted by Model on 3/23/2023, 8:32 am, in reply to "Re: Respect"

This is an excellent example and one a lot of teachers, not just band directors, forget. Model the behavior you want to see. When a student walks into your office don't multi-task. Give them your undivided attention and then when you ask them to do the same in rehearsal there is understanding of how that looks. Don't blow up on a kid and then wonder why they blow back. (this was one I saw so many times in inner-city settings. The kids bite back. Doesn't mean you don't have standards but I could handle the toughest of kids in the hallways that others couldn't because I didn't bully them yet they complied). Don't have side conversations during rehearsal and then wonder why they are having them while you are working a different section. Stay off your phone on the podium and then you don't have to wonder why they have theirs on their stand. Don't walk around with your cup of coffee in rehearsal telling them how important it is to you while you tell them no food or drink in the band hall. MODEL the behavior you expect of them. One of my biggest things was I never asked a kid to do something I wouldn't do. The simplest was never asking kids to move chairs to set up the band hall. I would start moving chairs and almost instantly a few students would ask if I wanted help. After about a month of that they were doing it on their own. Oh, and be on time! Always, be on time, start rehearsals/concerts on time, and ALWAYS end on time. I never ended early because rehearsal time was important. I always told the kids if we didn't need rehearsal I wouldn't schedule one. I never ended early but I NEVER ended late.

Re: Respect

Posted by Empathy on 3/21/2023, 2:41 pm, in reply to "Respect"

...compassion. Demonstrate clear, attainable objectives. Hopefully this turns into a great thread. Nice question and probably many valuable responses.

Re: Respect

Posted by Respectfully on 3/21/2023, 2:34 pm, in reply to "Respect"

You kind of have to be demanding, not necessarily a jerk.

Don't let them get away with stuff. Be consistent, be firm, and have high expectations.

Respect comes with time. Being a kid's "friend" will not win you any respect from anyone - least of all anyone that doesn't like that kid.

You can be warm and still be strict. You can be friendly but still stern. But have an expectation of behavior from the beginning to the end of class, and when that expectation is not met, hold kids accountable to it.

Nothing causes kids to lose respect for a teacher faster than a teacher playing favorites or lying. And while you may not see it as lying, saying you're going to do something and then not following through - even with "You'll pack up and sit out if you talk again" then they know that you won't have any bite to back up your bark.

Finally, don't use ultimatums, and don't punish the entire class for the actions of a few. Have procedures for all students and follow them.

Re: Respect

Posted by Dosed on 3/21/2023, 2:16 pm, in reply to "Respect"

Time and effort.

Sometimes the time portion takes longer than we'd like but not all people are the same

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