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Sousa at UIL?

Posted by HSBD on 2/16/2023, 7:32 am

Good morning YellowBoard:

I have been tirelessly looking for a march that fits my group and I've settled on a Sousa march, but people have always told me not to do Sousa at UIL. I understand the idea of "you'll get that mean judge that doesn't like your interpretation", but I think this whole concept puts off really good music from being played. I've also heard this about Holst Suites, Grainger, etc...

Thoughts? Anyone had a negative experience by doing something like this that they attribute to it being Sousa?

Thanks in advance.

Re: Sousa at UIL?

Posted by Play it!!! on 2/16/2023, 9:29 pm, in reply to "Sousa at UIL?"

If it fits your students, play it! I taught in East Texas for a while and a few seasoned directors used to say don’t play Sousa and don’t play Grainger. Their reasoning doesn’t matter because it was absurd. They also referred to some modern works as “wrong not drum band” music, so that should tell you everything.

Re: Sousa at UIL?

Posted by LBD on 2/16/2023, 2:50 pm, in reply to "Sousa at UIL?"

My groups played Sousa nearly every year at contests, and we also programmed plenty of Grainger, Holst, Vaughan Williams, etc.

i was never concerned about anything other than performing them to the best of our ability. The groups always earned 1st divisions on whatever was put in front of them and many have gone on to successful careers as music educators and have commented positively on their Sousa performances.

I say if you want to play it, play it!

Re: Sousa at UIL?

Posted by Curious on 2/16/2023, 2:22 pm, in reply to "Sousa at UIL?"

I only play Sousa or King marches. Fear of tyrant judges is not going to stop me from teaching my kids what I feel is the best of the best when it comes to marches.

Re: Sousa at UIL?

Posted by Lobot on 2/16/2023, 12:21 pm, in reply to "Sousa at UIL?"

It shouldn’t matter if you play the march well. It is also important that students have the experience of playing a Sousa march. Nothing really compares.
However...
I played a Sousa march for contest last year. I thought we had a really good performance, and the recording came out well for the entire contest.
We made a 2.
After that experience, never again.

Re: Sousa at UIL?

Posted by Me on 2/16/2023, 11:29 am, in reply to "Sousa at UIL?"

This was ABSOLUTELY the case when that became good advice - in the 1970s, 1980s and into the 1990s, when the majority of the "retired" judges were teachers working in the 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s - and they learned from people who may have directly learned from Sousa or his bandsmen.

Nearly all of those judges are now dead or fully retired.

Since we now are a generation or two removed from the "Sousa has to be this way" folks, the majority of judges don't have a strong attachment to the man or to a particular style of Sousa anymore. It's just as safe to play as Karl King now.

tl;dr: Play it.

Re: Sousa at UIL?

Posted by Gaga on 2/16/2023, 3:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Sousa at UIL?"

Yes, this is the correct answer. When I first started teaching, some of Sousa's band members were still alive and actually judging. The statement about the band directors in the 70s and 80s is also true. This hasn't been the case in almost 30 years, and many bands play Sousa quite successfully. As long as you play it well and stylistically correct, it is fine. Sadly, many directors don't understand correct march style, whether it be Sousa, King, Fillmore, or anyone else.

Re: Sousa at UIL?

Posted by Me on 2/16/2023, 7:52 pm, in reply to "Re: Sousa at UIL?"

To say nothing of the fact that not all marches have the same style.

A German march is MUCH different stylistically than a Pasodoble, which is different from an American march, which is in turn different from a British march, which is also different from a French march, all of which differ drastically from a Marche, too.

And then you get into circus marches, and/or the difference between a quickstep march and a concert march, and most people's eyes simply glaze over.

Re: Sousa at UIL?

Posted by Hmm on 2/16/2023, 6:09 pm, in reply to "Re: Sousa at UIL?"

Is there a secret to march style that you want to share? I've always been told the style is "lifted" with "separation between the notes". Appreciate the help!

Re: Sousa at UIL?

Posted by Gaga on 2/17/2023, 2:06 pm, in reply to "Re: Sousa at UIL?"

You are right, but it is no secret. Not all march styles are the same. American, German, English, Italian marches all have their nuances. My favorites are the American marches. When you say "lifted", that is correct but can be confusing to young people. A wise old band director once explained articulations in a way that helped my kids. Legato is 100% of the length of the marked note (a legato quarter will run into the next quarter), marcato, which is the style of most marches, is 75% of the length of the written note, thus the term "lifted" (I always said, "let me hear a tiny bit of silence between each note"), and staccato is %50 of the note length. Another must is doing the accents, all of them. I've been told that Karl King's band did accents almost to the point of being "nasty". I don't recommend that, but do let your audience (and judges) "know" that the accents and dynamics were played - just make sure it is a good sound. There are lots of other things to know about march style, but it would take a book. Just listen to all the march styles you can and note the little details. Hope this helps a little.

Re: Sousa at UIL?

Posted by And on 2/17/2023, 5:26 pm, in reply to "Re: Sousa at UIL?"

I learned from an old East Texas bandmaster that not only are accented notes louder, they’re usually played full length, if you want to be truly authentic.

Re: Sousa at UIL?

Posted by DesertJazz on 2/16/2023, 10:58 am, in reply to "Sousa at UIL?"

I've done it and lived to tell the tale. I think you're going to have to be extra nitpicky on certain things, but there's a huge educational benefit to teaching one. I did Fairest of the Fair in 2016 and Hands Across the Sea in 2021 with our 3A group. It's possible to be successful with them, but I will also tell you I experienced a bit more stress being afraid of the boogeyman there.

One thing to keep in mind is that in the next twenty years a huge turnover of the generation of judges is coming. Less and less of the judges are from that old school training that truly inspired the fear here. Sadly I think in the past twenty years that mentality has really caused our own training to suffer. I had a HS director who hated marches, and that took time to overcome for me. I'm grateful to have had a mentor though who helped me understand just how cool those marches really are! We really do need to teach Sousa, King, and more modern marches. I'm a big proponent of getting a rotation in there.

Now this year I'm jumping off the paso doble cliff I've been far more terrified of... hope it works out!

Re: Sousa at UIL?

Posted by Veteran on 2/16/2023, 9:34 am, in reply to "Sousa at UIL?"

I think that’s hogwash. I’ve done works by all of those composers dozens of times over the years and have never gotten a comment to justify the things your post alludes to.
I’m not anything special in the band world but I’ve been in it a long time. I hear these works at contests EVERY year and it’s just not a line of thinking that’s valid or predominant in my opinion. It’s how you play what you play that counts. Another way to look at it:
JR McEntyre once said to me “Can you teach it? If you can, then they can play it.”

Re: Sousa at UIL?

Posted by Stoopid Trumpet Player on 2/16/2023, 9:24 am, in reply to "Sousa at UIL?"

I call nonsense on that opinion! Good music well played is just that. As long as your interpretation is true to the spirit of the march and your students play it with great sounds, balance, intonation, dynamics, articulation, etc...judges should appreciate that.

Re: Sousa at UIL?

Posted by Hsdb on 2/16/2023, 9:53 am, in reply to "Re: Sousa at UIL?"

My bands have performed a Sousa march at UIL many times, never has it been an issue. There are a couple I would never do at UIL—Washington Post, or Stars and Stripes. But the volume of work by Sousa is so great, there are many great choices. The fun thing about a Sousa March is editing it to bring out various voices, colors and characteristics. Also studying how marches were played inside vs outside. A Sousa March can be far more than just a March.

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