The Yellow Board

Finalists

Posted by 6A on 11/7/2022, 10:03 pm

Pearland
Waxahachie
Vista Ridge
Vandegrift
Claudia Taylor Johnson
Reagan
Flower Mound
Hebron
Marcus
The Woodlands
Keller
Cedar Ridge
Round Rock
Coppell

Re: Finalists

Posted by Dennis on 11/8/2022, 10:03 am, in reply to "Finalists"

Congratulations to our 2022 finalists in 6A!! All the bands that made state should be proud of their accomplishments. And, congratulations to all of our great Texas bands that made it to Area this year!!

Being from a different state and have now lived here since 1988, I know we have the best band programs and outstanding educators. Others states would love to have our situations and opportunities.

I am now retired, but very proud to have been and still involved in this great state of bands! Congratulations to all!!

Re: Finalists

Posted by Reality Check on 11/8/2022, 8:39 am, in reply to "Finalists"

The same band over and over. Tens of Thousands of dollars were spent to get them there.

No small 6A Band program in size and budget can compete.

YE, who can pay for it, gets to go to the big show.

So sad.

When is UIL Going to split all band divisions like they do in athletics? 1-6A and 2-6A. Or better yet. By band sizes.

0-150 Members
150 - UP Members

NO COMMON SENSE IN THE STATE.

Re: Finalists

Posted by John T on 11/8/2022, 7:20 pm, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

As my older, wiser boss used to say you pay your nickel and take your chance. Each and every band wins when they have taken all they have and then take it to the limit. Trophies are nice but in 20 years or less no one will care where you did or did not place. Life isn’t fair,get over it and do the best you can with what you are given!

Re: Finalists

Posted by Snerk on 11/8/2022, 2:33 pm, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

Those sour grapes certainly make for a good whine.

Re: Finalists

Posted by And... on 11/8/2022, 3:39 pm, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

There's also the saying, "A poor workman always blames their tools.", that is rather appropriate as well.

Re: Finalists

Posted by Kenny on 11/9/2022, 3:58 pm, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

And to quote Kenny Rodgers, “If you’re gonna play the game, boy, you gotta learn to play it right.”

Re: Finalists

Posted by maybe... on 11/8/2022, 11:31 am, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

they are the best bands in the state in their classification. You'll notice that the top athletic teams are always at the top.

The Houston Astros won not because they cheated but because they have great players AND and a great farm program.

Same way with these bands. I am pretty sure the middle schools that feed them are really good.

You have to find a system that works for you to be successful and stick with it. That will help your band grow and get better.

Re: Finalists

Posted by retireder on 11/8/2022, 10:36 am, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

Band size won't work. There was an time when a group of very successful programs marched a very select competition band. Or did somehow all of the sections just happen to be in multiples of three...? At least one just marched 11/12 grades.

More regulation (government) always leads to unintended consequences. It is a system with flaws, and some have to work harder and catch more breaks to succeed at the highest levels. Efforts to make things easier for those in the long run usually have the opposite effect.

Re: Finalists

Posted by SmallSchoolBD on 11/10/2022, 11:05 am, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

Band size would absolutely work if it was based on total students enrolled in band. Similar to a form 1 situation, each director should have to submit the total number of students enrolled, and have it signed by the lead counselor and the principal. Do it after the 2nd or 3rd week of school, or the week of the 1st football game, and it locks in their band conference for the entire competition season. This eliminates those larger groups who want to take the "easy" way out, and allows the small bands to compete in a more fair way. Yes, ideally judges shouldn't look at band size as a way to determine rating or ranking, but we have all seen how that is not always the case.

Re: Finalists

Posted by mama always said on 11/8/2022, 10:07 am, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

Losers find an excuse. Winners find a way.

Re: Finalists

Posted by really retired on 11/8/2022, 9:52 am, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

And, then, there MIGHT be a feller who has a 200 piece band. For competition he creates a 149 member band with 51 alternates (who move weird things around the field during the show) - thus, he competes for the 150 class trophy. win-win

Re: Finalists

Posted by Jarrett Lipman on 11/8/2022, 9:22 am, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

And a lot of great students with great teachers. Money can’t buy happiness - or a championship. It doesn’t work without a lot of other elements.

If you want to discuss splitting the state championship, or finding ways to help smaller a schools achieve better results - I think you can do that without tearing down those who are working just like you to be great at band.

There are always conversations to be had - and it is possible to be a part of a solution, if you can stay focused on what you want to see happen.

I sense your frustration - please consider channeling it differently.

Re: Finalists

Posted by Nope on 11/9/2022, 3:29 pm, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

Smaller schools can't compete. I probably could have made this list in August and been pretty close to 100%.

No matter what a 6A school with 3 Tubas would not make finals. A 6A school marching a stock show with only 3 directors, (instead of all the specialist), will not make finals. A 6A school with NO private lessons will not make finals.

Not taking anything away from these great programs. But we have to stop the unicorn farts and saying that better teaching would simply solve the problem.

Either cap spending, make classifications based on the number of students on the field (including alternates moving props and not given spots), or accept that economics will continue to drive the finalist list.

Re: Finalists

Posted by Anon on 11/10/2022, 5:48 pm, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

A 6A band with only 3 tubas has recruitment, instrument fitting and retention issues from beginner band on up through 12th grade.

Earning a performance at the State Marching Contest would be my LAST priority were I the 6A director with only 3 tubas.

Groups at the SMC are great for several reasons but they DEFINITELY have recruitment, instrument fitting and retention challenges dealt with.

Re: Finalists

Posted by Um... on 11/10/2022, 10:03 am, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

Pretty sure the 3rd place band in 6A had 4 tubas and less than 100 winds.

Re: Finalists

Posted by Inner City BD II on 11/10/2022, 9:14 am, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

Would a 6A school with 3 tubas not make finals because they only have 3 tubas, or because they don't have the ensemble sound that a 6a school with say 7 tubas does?

And does more tubas guarantee success? If so, then why aren't those big inner city bands which march fifteen to twenty tubas sweeping finals every year?

Maybe it has more to do with the quality of teaching, not the amount of instruments? And well-funded programs tend to attract families which support high quality teaching and private lessons?

Maybe they're not good because they're rich .. maybe they're rich, so they chose to spend the money to be good?

And regarding a spending cap - propose that in your region meeting if you think it's a legitimate idea. Get some help from other directors in other regions so that it has to become a state-wide topic of discussion. But if I may educate you - nearly every single major sport that has imposed a salary cap has become *less* competitive in the years since it was implemented.

For example, the NBA implemented their cap in 1984-5. Since then, twelve teams of now 30 have won a championship - and of those twelve, three of them only once. Four of those teams haven't won in twenty years or more. Of the last 30 NBA championships, 80% have been won by five teams - the Spurs, Lakers, Warriors, Bulls, and Heat - and the Bulls haven't won since 1998.

A spending limit would ONLY work if there were also a spending MINIMUM - like the NHL cap has. That forces teams to not put together minimum-effort situations. If you want a spending cap on marching band, I want a spending floor. After all, those communities deserve to be competitive, don't they? They should be forced to spend money on their band programs.

Re: Finalists

Posted by Nope on 11/10/2022, 10:26 am, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

If everyone was playing with their best, balanced ensemble sound the Band balanced to 7 Tubas will win every day in the music category. The sound is bigger and darker. An ensemble balanced to 3 tubas simply can't have as big of sound. And the reality is those big finals schools probably had 10 to 15 against a school with 3. Bad sounds are a different discussion.

Your second point is a sound quality discussion. Because an inner city band has more tubas doesn't mean they are playing with the same quality of sound. Show band sound has a tendency to be spread and very bright. That doesn't translate to a corp style sound. BUT if their ensemble sound was the same then yes, that inner city school beats 3 tubas musically.

If parents don't have money to spend on private lessons it doesn't matter how much they support the quality teaching. Schools which require ALL students in the varsity and non-varsity band to take private lessons funded by the individual will have a much deeper level of player than a program where the parents CAN'T afford to spend money each week on lessons. Sure, the district could fund those but that then is a budget decision and probably means something else isn't being funded. If you paid for 20 lessons over the course of a school year for 40 students at $15 per lesson that's costing the school budget $12,000. That's more than my entire show budget including flags, music, and drill....

Why should there be a minimum? jWhy should a community be forced to budget money for something they don't want to. A cap levels the field for those interested in playing. A minimum forces communities into spending they don't want. What if they are an Ag community and value Ag mechs over marching band. Or they value basketball over football? Do they have to bend to your will just so the band has a minimum amount of money even though their school prefers to focus on choir to push budget money towards other programs or expenses like busing or extra teachers?

Re: Finalists

Posted by Inner City BD II on 11/10/2022, 7:56 pm, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

Why should there be a maximum? Why should a community be forced to cut back spending on something they want to? A floor levels the field for all entered bands and forces communities to support activities that exist in the community. A maximum forces communities into not putting forth their best effort. What if they are a band community and value band and the arts over ag or football? Do they have to bend to your will just so the band has a maximum amount of money even though their school prefers to focus on marching band in order to compete at the state and national level in competitions?

Your argument when turned around is just as specious.

For that matter, there are PLENTY of ways for lower SES programs to fund private lessons. Fundraising. Grants. DonorsChoose. BigThought. It can be done. It's just that very few people who work in those communities have the experience (or the time, or the commitment, for that matter) necessary to know how to engage those parts of the community that would support it. I've been in inner city schools for over a decade now.
The average band director in my district lasts 3 years maximum.

Additionally, very few parents see the value in taking private lessons to get better at playing an instrument the kid likely doesn't even own. This is why equity is important to the discussion. A rising tide raises all ships.

And finally - an otherwise medium to large band with three tubas can supplement their bass sound with synth. In this day and age, there's no excuse for a band to not sound polished and of high quality if they want to do so. You can complain about the cost - but if I were in an ostensibly competitive 6A program and I only had 3 tubas in my marching band, I'd first ask the middle school directors just what the hell is going on down there, and then second I'd budget for something to supplement my band sound until that problem is fixed.

Stop looking to why it can't be done and start finding solutions. So what if you can't keep up with Highland Park's or Friendswood's average parent income - literally no one can (those are the two richest ISDs per capita in Texas, according to TEA). That doesn't mean that you can't beat them where it matters - on the field. Teach.

Postscript: Since you started this by claiming that no one can compete with a particular program that has 50-some-odd names listed on their website .. how did they wind up doing at SMBC? Did they win?

Re: Finalists

Posted by Nope on 11/14/2022, 5:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

Spent over 2 decades in inner city schools

The maximum is like stock cars. If you maximize the HP then it comes down to the driver. Band A spending 100k on a show versus band b spending 10k on a show will not look the same. Band A spending 100k on extra staff versus band B limited to 3 directors total will not have the ability to get to the specials, (I've seen places where they have 4 guard directors including movement, flag, rifle, saber)..... Maximizing the amount levels the playing field. Otherwise, we stay right where we are. YOu are missing the point on the minimum. There is no reason to mandate how much to spend. There is reason to mandate the maximum.

Synth is not an acceptable solution and it isn't simply as easy as telling the junior highs to recruit more Tubas. Much more complicated than that. As is your final statement of just teach. Isn't that simple.

Re: Finalists

Posted by Numbers on 11/8/2022, 12:35 pm, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

I count 54 unique names on the CTJ Band website listed as director, instructor, clinician, specialist, or designer.
That’s “a lot of other elements” that I’d be willing to bet goes beyond what NEISD provides in your budget.
I enjoy watching your band very much. I sat upper deck on the 50 yesterday and was on the edge of my seat. I wish you & your band all the best today, but let’s not be obtuse and say it’s simply the hard work and dedication of the students and teachers. The students execute, but they sure have a lot of help that most of us simply cannot provide to get them to that level.

Re: Finalists

Posted by Jarrett Lipman on 11/8/2022, 1:48 pm, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

I am open and willing to share how we get there. There are examples of programs all over Texas with inadequate funding who are working to bring the very best to their bands. And doing it. The models are out there. We are not the wealthiest campus or community - we work to fundraise, find grants, and bring the best we can for our students. It isn’t easy but it is worth it.

Re: Finalists

Posted by Precisely on 11/8/2022, 1:37 pm, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

CTJ is tremendous!

However, not every school has the resources to produce their work, especially in the same city they are from.

Re: Finalists

Posted by Jarrett Lipman on 11/8/2022, 3:53 pm, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

We are fortunate - we have also worked creatively to generate additional revenue streams and also build relationships with clinicians, designers, and other instructors to where sometimes they’ll discount services or volunteer time to teach.

I don’t want to dismiss the conversation, actually the opposite - I see and visit a lot of places where the instructors work tirelessly and simply don’t have the support or additional resources to achieve what they might if they did. I also know that targeting anger towards the bands who are successful isn’t going to solve the problem. How do we solve the problem? And what is the exact scope of the problem? It’s not universal. That is the real discussion IMO.

I would rather spend my days problem solving, whether it’s for CTJ or anyone who asks, and working with those who want to do the same. Meaningful change is possible and it begins with conversation. I just don’t think this discussions need to detract from the amazing work of the groups performing today.

Re: Finalists

Posted by AND..... on 11/8/2022, 1:20 pm, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

I appreciate how Jarrett posts his name. He doesn't hide behind a fake and take pot-shots at others. I'm in the same region as Jarrett. He is one of the most polite and respectful directors out there and is a wide open book. He is always more than willing to answer questions and help out in any way.

Re: Finalists

Posted by Numbers on 11/8/2022, 2:49 pm, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

I took no "pot shots" and I actually complimented his group. I have my reasons for not providing my real name, none of those is so that I can be a jerk on the internet.
I only know Mr. Lipman by reputation and I have no reason to believe that he is malicious or, in any way, acting under false pretenses. I just think it's a little short sighted to ignore all of the resources available to that program.

Re: Finalists

Posted by Respectfully on 11/8/2022, 2:59 pm, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

What Mr. Lipman is saying is that those resources weren't given to him - he worked to obtain them, and that other bands and programs can work to obtain the same resources.

Re: Finalists

Posted by Numbers on 11/8/2022, 3:17 pm, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

Once upon a time, I believed the same thing…if only I worked harder!

Re: Finalists

Posted by Abraham Lincoln on 11/8/2022, 1:52 pm, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

Using a name does not always prove that it's the actual person posting. That's the problem/advantage with an anonymous board. Problem because of what I said about proof of identity. Advantage because if kept civil, we can actually exchange very helpful viewpoints without being dismissed as a "nobody."

Re: Finalists

Posted by yee on 11/8/2022, 1:02 pm, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

This is correct.

Re: Finalists

Posted by HCBD on 11/8/2022, 11:18 am, in reply to "Re: Finalists"

This! Thank you!

« Back to index

[ The Yellow Board ]