The Yellow Board

Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Hmmm.... on 5/10/2022, 3:06 pm

As we get neck deep in the "Silly Season" of job postings and interviews, I have made an observation, and looking for some speculation or insight.

After years of looking through the posted positions, I have noticed a pattern at several of the larger schools that appear to be looking to fill the exact same assistant positions every...single...year. I have been wondering why that happens on a yearly basis. Yes, I am aware of "upward mobility" where someone takes a position for the short term in order to "jump" to the next rung of the ladder. With that said, I can't see that many people jumping after *one* year *every* year and it being feasible. Also, the HDs can't enjoy having to hire new staff every year, and would prefer some stability in the staff.

Can anyone shed some light on this phenomenon?

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Rat Hole Jobs on 5/14/2022, 12:20 pm, in reply to "Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

It is unfortunate that in the early part of one's career you must move to improve. Like many directors, not particularly wanting to move every year, I found it necessary to find that illusive GOOD job. As a wise old director once told me, "you'll never find an ideal job, you will have to make one with hard work.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by face it on 5/13/2022, 3:37 pm, in reply to "Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

The truth is this is a crappy profession. Low pay, long hours. Maybe they all went to drive semis for Walmart to make 6 figure salaries.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Not underpaid on 5/17/2022, 8:20 am, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

Take the summer and apply for jobs outside of teaching just to see what you could actually get and what you would actually get paid, (remember that the real world folks for 50 weeks a year). You might be surprised at just how many jobs you wouldn't get because while we as band directors have skills that translate to other professions those hiring folks don't always agree.

Teaching has its downsides but teachers also have it pretty good in a lot of ways.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by actually on 5/17/2022, 12:32 pm, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

The "real world folks" don't work 50 weeks a year. they get many days off throughout the year and they also have personal days they can take, as well. they also get compensated for their time instead of extra duties as assigned. And the degreed professionals have a real opportunity to move up within a company and get compensated through bonuses. None of this is true in education.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Not underpaid on 5/18/2022, 7:57 am, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

If you made the jump today to the real world you would get 7 paid holidays and 2 weeks vacation, (because most likely you would come in at an entry level employee. And maybe 40 hours of sick leave, (unless your PTO and SL are combined in which case you might get 3 weeks vacation to use how you see fit). So at best with the other holidays you get 4 weeks off and work 48 weeks. Big difference from teachers with multiple weeks, (yes unpaid but time to do whatever you want with no expectation of answering parent emails or phone calls for 10 plus weeks a year). I left teaching, (still involved with music), and I do not get any personal days other than my PTO/SL. I will say I have more flexibility with my work from home schedule and can shift things around which is really nice but I work all summer and Thanksgiving break and Christmas break and Spring break now because those aren't my vacations in the business world.

Do some research on starting salaries with bachelors degrees. You might be surprised to find that teachers starting pay isn't that far off. If you are a salaried employee in the non-teaching field you don't get compensated for extra time unless your company offers bonuses. Hourly employees get paid overtime but salaried folks don't regardless of the field you work in. Otherwise, you work till the job is done just like teachers. Most "duties as assigned" are within reasonable work hours, (morning bus duty for 20 minutes etc), and not that much of a burden. And even in my current field I have a few of those "duties as assigned" that require an evening or a Saturday to do things for the company.

I will say that some professions do offer more vertical opportunities. Education does too if you are willing to get out of the classroom. But with education, either you teach, you are department, you are building admin, or you are district admin. So if you only want to teach you are locked in.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by actually on 5/19/2022, 10:50 am, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

I did retire from the private sector, so I know what I'm talking about. Perhaps, you have the wrong job with the wrong company? Maybe, "research" other companies and get in on some of the perks because they are nice. Starting teacher pay? I made $25,000 a year when I did it decades ago. That included stipend and extra days. I also had a lot of junk dumped on me that had nothing to do with teaching. I also had some dump classes added to my schedule at the last minute. So, I walked away after I was able to and that took about 14 years get my ducks in a row. But, it was worth it and I don't regret not staying in teaching one bit.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by NLABD on 5/18/2022, 2:07 pm, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

As my moniker would imply, I am no longer a band director, but I still keep active, and I still help former colleagues.

I am essentially a first year HR person. My salary is just shy of what I made after over two decades in working in education, WITH a masters!

So, I no longer have summers off. Guess what? I no longer need them. This is the first May I can remember where I am not exhausted and hating life. My Facebook memories show me day after day of monster-sized to-do lists, uter exhaustion, and just waiting for the end of the year to bring me sweet release. I can remember entire months of June where I was like Goldie Hawn in the rainbarrel (Overboard) just sitting and staring at something mindless going ba-ba-ba-ba-ba.

Here is what I've gained:
I work from home.
I can flex my time to work around doctor's appointments and the like
I can take PTO and go do something interesting at off-peak times. (I'm planning a trip shortly after labor day)
I close my laptop at the end of the day and walk away, and I still have enregy to do things like housework or whatever at the end of the day.
My benefits stink, but they're still better than what the district offered!
The busiest day's I've experience - where I was lterally doing two jobs at once - was less stressful than a regular day of teaching.
I have started to overcome my dread of emails - at school they tended to mean that I was in trouble or I was given anoher inane task.
I can go to the bathroom when I want.
My lunch is an hour - or I sign off 30 minutes early. Whatever. As long as my tasks are done.
My boss seems genuinely interested in my succeeding.

I use some of my extra brain space to advocate for teachers and support my teacher friends.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Misconceptions on 5/18/2022, 11:59 am, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

For one, "not that far off" is still unequal pay. If a first year person in HR is making $57k and a first year teacher is making $52k, it's "not that far off" but $5k is about $350 a month after taxes.

Plus, NEARLY ALL private companies that offer insurance have equal or better insurance rates than us. We also would gain Social Security annuitization which we don't as teachers.

Finally, your assumption that "salary doesn't get overtime regardless of field" is flat-out incorrect. Salary EXEMPT employees don't. There are a list of things that MUST be met for your job title to classify as salary exempt. See the link here for what qualifies you as exempt or not. MANY salaried positions are non-exempt salary positions and would qualify for overtime.

Wage theft is THE MOST COMMON FORM OF THEFT IN THE UNITED STATES. Know your rights, and know the law. If anyone chooses to leave education, do your research.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Days on 5/18/2022, 1:14 pm, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

How many days does the person in HR work versus the classroom teacher in your example? What is equal pay based on? Are we saying doctors and teachers should be paid the same? HR and teachers should be? The principal of a 6a high school and a department chair of a 1c middle school?

Insurance depends on the size of the company. My daughter has been on my insurance for years because my wife works for a very small firm that covers 100% of her insurance but was crazy expensive to add our kid so school insurance it was because it was cheaper. I don’t know that your generalizations match up with the real world.

We aren’t paying into social security so why should we get it back? That’s a whole other can of worms on whether it should even exist.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Bob Cobb on 5/18/2022, 11:32 am, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

Yes, starting salaries may be comparable between education and noneducation jobs for degreed professionals.

The problem is with the experience level beyond the first year. In education you might work 20 years and only end up with less than a $10,000 raise in that span of time. In the noneducation world, you generally can make what you are worth and will usually make more than just a $10,000 raise in a 20 year time span working in the same company, industry or profession.

Being compensated fairly beyond the first year would be a great step in education.

Districts are getting better at attracting teachers, but not doing so well at retaining teachers.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Eye Roll... on 5/15/2022, 8:33 am, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

1. It's market value, you are paid what the school board can afford, and thinks your services are worth. That's why some directors with 10 years experience make $45K, and others with the same experience make $65K. You knew that when you decided this is what you wanted to do for a living...and nobody forced you to sign that contract. Want a 6 figure salary in music? Earn a spot in the Chicago Symphony.

2. Work more efficiently (or "smarter" if you like), and the hours aren't so long. Sorry, you can't help how long Friday nights can be, and you may be able to provide input on the number of contests the band does, but until you are a head director you don't get the final decision. Again, you knew this going into the profession...and nobody forced you to sign that contract.

Considering your attitude about the profession, sounds like you want to drive for Walmart....GOOD! Don't let the door hit you on the backside on the way out. In 6 months, you'll be complaining about having to maintain the speed limit, and not being allowed to ride in the passing lane.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Bob Cobb on 5/17/2022, 2:40 pm, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

What a school board decides to pay is not market value. You will find in a lot of places that what you make as a degreed professional in an educational setting is less than other degreed professionals with the same amount of training and experience in other professions.

While I agree we did not get into teaching to become a millionaire, we also did not sign up for a vow of poverty.

The problem is, the public wants a champagne education on a beer budget.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Houston on 5/18/2022, 8:06 am, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

There are several Houston area districts with starting pay over 60k. That is not a vow of poverty.

And you need to look at daily rate for contracted days if you want to compare to other fields. 187 or 207 day contract is not the same as a job that works the full year. $300 daily rate ($37.50 an hour or $56,100 a year) on a 187 day contract would be 261 days in a field outside of the classroom and a salary of $78,300. You cannot compare apples to oranges in salaries if the number of days worked are not comparable. 74 days of not working, (and not getting paid for it). But ask yourself, would you rather have the money or the time. Depending on where you are in life probably answers that question, (my younger self would have liked the money but my older self really enjoyed the time with my kid). And if you want extra days, there is always summer school.

As a tax payer, I'm not willing to pay a teacher including myself 74 days of sitting at home. Nor am I willing to just open the building and force kids on campus for extra days to pay teachers more when we already waste a TON of days during the current school year with testing, practice testing, useless field trips, games, sports days, pep rallies etc.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by sigh on 5/19/2022, 10:59 am, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

Houston is not Texas. It's Houston. There are more rural towns and areas in Texas than urban or suburban. Rural areas don't start teachers out at 60k. And PLEASE don't start in with the "cheaper to live in a rural area" because in many cases you will be wrong. Groceries and gas is usually way higher because there is no where else to go or fewer other stores to compete with. Also, not everyone who teaches in a rural community, lives in that community. Some live in the city and commute for many reasons and must use the rural salary for their city living expenses.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by I Roll... on 5/15/2022, 3:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

1. 65K for a degreed "professional" with 10 yrs experience is laughable. That is the average starting point for almost any other degreed profession.

2. Sure... because football is the cause of terrible hours.

Considering your attitude about the profession, sounds like you are content being treated as a second class citizen for minimal pay. Enjoy that under-funded retirement package that doesn't take into account cost of living increases and poor medical coverages. A "sit there and take it" approach only maintains the status-quo.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Retirement on 5/17/2022, 8:23 am, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

Don't wait on the state to provide you retirement. Just like nobody is expecting social security to fund their retirement. Let TRS be supplemental and YOU be responsible. Ya know, in the corporate world they don't provide you anything except maybe matching to a 401k that YOU have to go out and make happen.

Who starts at 65k besides doctors, (probably with massive debt), lawyers, (working 80 hour weeks), and maybe some engineers? Where are these magic 65K starting gigs you speak of? And don't forget what teachers in Texas urban areas are starting at these days......

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by No one wants to add... on 5/12/2022, 1:40 pm, in reply to "Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

All of these statements I have read have large degrees of truth, if not entirely true. No one wants to hear it but add to the fact that being a minority does not help in the application process. I find it amazing that we see that the NFL has this problem when it comes to hiring head coaches as well as assistants but won't accept that the band world has the same issue. SMH!!!

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Huh? on 5/12/2022, 5:02 pm, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

You don't really want to talk NFL and minority hires. Certainly not if you want to talk actual percentages of the population and in 10 years this won't be a discussion at all as the current round of players move into coaching positions. Look at the age of the average NFL coach versus their assistants. When the old guys start to retire guess who will have the experience and be ready to step into those positions. Currently African Americans make up 13% of the US population and 10% of the head coaches in the NFL are African American. 35% or more of the assistants are African American. Do you really want to count the players because that is a whole different level of disproportionate. And what about the Asian coaches and Hispanic coaches? Are they represented? We are here because 40 years ago the NFL and the coaches looked different. Progress has it's way of working things out for the better and that is exactly what we are seeing happen over time.

It's 2022. Why don't we hire based on talent and expertise as opposed to checking boxes with things that don't really impact the results? That would be kinda cool.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Sigh. on 5/13/2022, 5:10 pm, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

10% of the head coaches are black. Or, I should say, there are three total black head coaches, and none from any other minorities.

70% of its players are black. Is that representative?

And as for your red herring of Asian or Hispanic coaches, well, less than 2% of its players are Asian, which also counts Pacific Islander. Less than half a percentage are Hispanic.

So if there are 32 head coaches, less than one, combined, should be Hispanic or Asian. If there are 1000 coaches at all positions, (which is a ballpark guess), there should be 5 Hispanic coaches and 20 Asian coaches to match the demographic.

The problem isn't being proportionate with society. It's being proportionate with its own players. And you likely know and understand this, and are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Otherwise you'd be asking why 51% of the coaches in the NFL weren't women. But again, that doesn't fit your narrative.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Narrative on 5/13/2022, 7:19 pm, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

I'm not sure of the narrative you speak of.

But while we are going down this road, how many kids on the high school team where you teach could coach a little league team effectively? I mean they are better players than those 8 year olds so it should be easy. How many of the high school band students could effectively teach beginners to play their instrument? How about your best saxophone player working with the beginning trumpets?

Ah, but they haven't been "taught" those things. If they went to college and learned to teach they'd be able to do that right? Isn't that what coaches do too?

An NFL player has never stopped playing long enough to learn all of the other aspects of the game. They are masters of their position and skill set no doubt. And while some of them learn other aspects, (usually QB's have a better understanding of the entire offense and not just their position), they don't just understand the nuances or the skills required for other positions. I would guess most NFL coaches played at the collegiate level but when that career ended they became grad assistants and learned to coach. Their path became different than the NFL player who continued to study their craft, spend time in the weight room, and study film to get better. They spent time working with specialists to build speed and coordination.

Someone that plays the game from age 6 to age 35 has never stopped long enough to learn to coach. That's why you see those young college coaches jumping all over the place. They start as a position coach, then a different position coach, then work up to a coordinator. Maybe they stay the college route or maybe they move to a high school or a junior college as a DC/OC and then work their way up to head coach. Heck, there are a number of great college coaches that crash and burn when they try the NFL. There is years of learning and work that go into being an effective coach at all levels and especially the NFL. But you assume an NFL player should walk into a coaching position when they retire? In 10 years you will see a number of these coordinators and position coaches ready to move into those head coaching positions. It takes time and experience. I just hope we let it happen naturally out of respect for those coaches busting their butts and learning their craft.

I know I was a better teacher in year 20 than I was in year 2. Same thing with coaches.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Flagged on 5/14/2022, 10:40 am, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

Moving the goalposts.

If 70% of players are black, then why aren’t 70% of people entering coaching also black?

Why are the coaching opportunities disproportionately going to whites when they’re at the same college at the same time?

Saying “it takes time and experience” is an excuse for maintaining the current unequal status quo.

THIS, RIGHT HERE, is what CRT is. Not the boogeyman it’s been made out to be. Why don’t persons of color have the same opportunities as whites?

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Narrative on 5/17/2022, 8:44 am, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

CRT has nothing to do with this discussion. Lazy response. And saying it takes time is not asking for the status quo. It's common sense and something you should see daily in your life as a band director and in the lives of your students daily.

How many band directors walk out of college into a head 5/6A gig? Or into a 1234A gig. Are any first year teachers wildly successful or do they need time to learn? Learning to coach or teach or play a game takes time. That isn't keeping the status quo. That's why your seniors are better than your 7th graders. That's why a 10 year director is usually better than a 2nd year director and that's why 1st year head coaches have a huge learning curve versus the 10 year coach....

My theory from years of observations and having somewhat of an understanding of coaching versus playing, (albeit in a different sport but it's all the same concepts).

Being a professional athlete requires a physical skill set first and foremost. An understanding of the game but the biggest component is execution. Could the very simple answer be that those athletes are at different levels of execution? Could it be that in some ways, some of those black athletes physically are superior to their white counterparts on the field which is why they continue playing after college, (making very good money), and their college teammates with less physical talent go a different direction. I mean, if I'm looking at a career path and I have a 1% chance of playing in the NFL and a 75% chance of coaching at the MS to NFL level I wonder which route I'm taking. But some of those athletes have a 90% chance of playing in the NFL so again, path chosen....

The truth is every athlete hits a fork in the road where they have to step away from the high levels of competition. Maybe those heading into coaching are choosing that sooner because they can't physically compete.

If you have ever tried to compete at any sport at the college, semi-pro, or professional level you would understand the physical and mental challenges to that endeavor. 10 to 12 hours devoted to diet, training, practice, study, work outs etc. is hard. Then once you make the team the stress of keeping your spot with age being the biggest detriment to peak performance plus the added travel time away from home and family. I've heard many commentators talk about retiring and how they just couldn't invest physically or mentally to the practice portion of their craft. I've tried the college athletic route. It's hard and time consuming and that's just the part to get there. I've tried the high level amateur route with the goal of turning pro. It's incredibly hard. Coaching is much easier than competing when you just can't do the physical anymore. Not quite as much fun but....

Stop assuming that all of those players have a desire to coach and stop assuming the world is hiring based on skin tone. Listen to some interviews and you might see there is more to it than pigmentation.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Logical Fallacy on 5/13/2022, 11:45 am, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

You cannot use the population of the US because that is not the reasonable candidate pool for coaching positions. Look at the percentage of *players* in the NFL who are POC, then the percentage of coaches who are POC. That's where you'll find the *fact* that there is a huge discrepancy.

Your closing statement is a veiled statement that seeks to "keep the status quo." It takes into assumption that the *only* reason someone would be hired is one of the things that "don't really impact the results." I don't think anyone is saying that qualifications don't matter, but that people of all racial & ethnic backgrounds can be, and are, qualified, but get overlooked because of how they look. Also, one could argue that players might associate/assimilate more closely with someone who looks like them so, in a way, it kind of does impact the results.

It's measurable that the NFL is missing the mark on this topic.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Question on 5/13/2022, 7:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

If we can't use the population of the US what should we use?

I know a lot of low single digit handicap golfers and a few pros that can't teach the swing for a lick but they can shoot 67 at the drop of a hat. I know a lot of great musicians that wouldn't last 30 minutes with a beginner flute class. Not everyone that is good at math can be an engineer. Not everyone that is good at science has what it takes to get through med school. Apple was created by a C student. But could Steve Jobs ever teach an 8th grader Algebra?

Because one can perform, (play), well doesn't always mean they can coach. To say that x% of the players are a certain race means that y% of coaches should look the same? To all of us in education that know not everyone is cut out for teaching you should be able to also say that not everyone is cut out for coaching. There are female coaches in the NFL now and there is no way they could survive playing in the NFL. But they can coach. There are analysts that would have a heart attack walking down a flight of stairs but they can scheme and make a game plan and communicate that game plan. Playing well doesn't just automatically translate to coaching well so a x to y is simply overly simplified and not realistic. It still assumes skin color first and credentials and abilities second which is kinda by definition well, wrong. And we are still only looking at one specific group of folks against another. The US has a very diverse population. There are players in the NFL from all over the world. Yet you are focused on a single ethnicity (black) against a single ethnicity, (white).

That's why I say if we are going to play the race equity game then let's play it and if only players can learn from coaches that look like them looks like there are about to be a lot of new hires to cover that diversity.

I spent decades teaching students that didn't look like me. I never changed my expectation, (which was new for some of them because they had been victims of "the soft bigotry of low expectations". I expected them to be able to play the instrument they were holding and make a characteristic sound. I didn't care how much money their parents had, how nice their house was, whether they had 0 or 4 cars, what language they spoke at home, and I especially didn't care about what they looked like. We just played and learned to love music. There are a lot of directors much better than me doing a much better job of making bands sound amazing in poor, title one, inner city schools all across the state. And a lot doing the same thing in small, rural schools. Because when it comes down to it, the color of ones skin and the size of mom's bank account doesn't impact the musician inside when that teacher, (of any color), can nurture it out of the students.

I'm a big fan of seeing the value of a person instead of judging by the color of their skin or because of who they love. If that's shallow and somehow wrong, so be it.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by CCC Houston on 5/14/2022, 10:36 am, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

I Love This!

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Respectfully on 5/13/2022, 7:21 am, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

Because for one, those "things that don't impact the results" DO impact them, and many people aren't able to show their talent and expertise because a coach needs to "have a certain look."

And "whataboutism" is frequently a thinly veiled excuse for racism and/or narrow minded thinking. You can recognize that a problem exists without also requiring that every other problem be simultaneously recognized and addressed.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by CCC on 5/12/2022, 1:03 pm, in reply to "Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

I know of many lower SES schools in highly desirable school districts that are used to launch careers. Some teachers get their foot in the door of a Title 1 school (for example) to get loans forgiven then move on from there. Some use these schools to take the first opportunity for advancement that comes their way.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Older than dirt on 5/12/2022, 5:30 am, in reply to "Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

I have seen the same scenario played out year after year. A very dedicated fellow I went to college with was the hd for almost all his life in one school district. He was very demanding and had no life outside the band hall. He was a respected fixture in his school and had a new assistant every year like clockwork. He was respected enough to attract young directors who used the position to the advancement of their careers. It was a rite of passage I suppose.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Stats on 5/11/2022, 12:37 pm, in reply to "Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

Look at the number of jobs on the entire TMEA board, and then look at the number of band jobs that are posted. No wonder we had several clinics on band director burn out.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Created by.... on 5/12/2022, 7:24 am, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

Ironically, most of the things that create band director burn out, is things that band directors came up with.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Truth on 5/12/2022, 9:12 am, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

Isn't that the truth. We demand ourselves to stay for sectionals and paperwork and extra ensembles and and and.

Self inflicted. I am waiting for the beast we've created with Marching and Indoor to take its toll both financially and with burnout.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by really retired on 5/12/2022, 11:30 am, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

my father - not a band director - use to gather directors around him and state that "you are your worst enemy."

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by West Texas on 5/11/2022, 11:45 am, in reply to "Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

5A. Our issue is location. The majority of applicants or hires we've seen want to live in a larger city or closer to a metropolitan area, so settling down in a smaller town is temporary for them.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by If only on 5/11/2022, 3:21 pm, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

If only I could go back to my younger self and tell them they do NOT want to live in a larger city and to sit my butt down in a nice small town and call it good.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by observation on 5/11/2022, 9:10 am, in reply to "Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

Because too many hire their friends or friends of friends of friends, etc. Never mind actually taking the time to hire people based solely on merit. As long as it's someone "you know." Well, friends and business rarely mix well, so hence the constant openings and possibly destroyed friendships. Not saying it's all the time and not saying hiring friends never works. As I did say, it RARELY works. Waiting for the response of, "We get 300 resumes and don't have to look at all of them" in 5, 4, 3, 2...

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Art Vandelay on 5/11/2022, 3:14 pm, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

Here you go!
"We get 300 resumes and don't have to look at all of them"

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by observation on 5/12/2022, 11:15 am, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

No problem. Good luck spending every year reposting and rehiring the same position. Me? I'm retired. I'll be spending my time golfing, relaxing, traveling, etc.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Sales from both sides on 5/11/2022, 8:16 am, in reply to "Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

Some Assistants are: pick from the following
1. Are amazed at the time required
2. Are not adaptable to the "method" of teaching of the HD
3. Are "miffed" when their suggestions are not implemented.
4. Realize the TEAM player in them is not a member of the TEAM
5. Feel over worked and under appreciated
6. The leader of the band has higher expectations of staff than him/herself
7. again....Time involved
8. Not supported by the HD and has to second guess all decisions.
This could go on. but after more than a few years of selling from both sides of the desk. it is a representative of what's what

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by sodarnsaxy on 5/12/2022, 9:41 am, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

Some Head Directors and Administrations:
1. Are amazed that people want a life outside of band and to not work untold hours for free.
2. Are not adaptable to having a different human beings teaching, with their own valid ideas-"Cogs in a machine."
3. Are unwilling or unable to receive input from anyone they consider "below" them, no matter the validity of the suggestion.
4. Don't realize the TEAM player in them isn't a member of the team, but would rather be a dictator.
5. See #1.
6. Have unrealistic expectations (aka DON'T KNOW THEIR KIDS)
7. Again, see #1.
8. See #3.

Any situation that frequently turns around assistant directors is toxic from the top down. Period.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by agree on 5/12/2022, 2:17 pm, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

I agree with these things to describe why turnaround would be due to bad things.
Think of this though. Maybe its a great situation causing the turnaround. Maybe its a great leader inspiring others to want to be a head director, or give them the skills to land a job in a successful situation. I would love to keep great assistants for a long time! Truth is, I would love even more for them to want to move up in our career. If that means they learn some things in a year or two and realize that the can do this and move on, then I am a successful leader. The grass isn't always greener, but I feel most are quick to assume its a bad situation. Could most definitely be that way, but you never know how tight the shoes may or may not be unless you wear them.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by sodarnsaxy on 5/12/2022, 3:02 pm, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

There should be more of us like you. Great response. That would be ideal. I feel like we'd all know if THAT were the situation in a particular school.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by 2A guy formerly 1A guy on 5/12/2022, 11:26 am, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

Even though we moved up to 2A, I still don't want an assistant. The superintendent actually asked me if I wanted one. I said, no for the following reasons.

1. I don't need the undermining or backstabbing

2. It's easier not to deal with the confused loyalties that kids might have.

3. The program is already successful with just one director in place. Why reinvent the wheel?

4. It's a lot of work since I also teach some elementary music in addition to my band duties but it's worth it.

5. Grunt work doesn't get done unless I do it or a parent or kid helps me, but once again, it's worth it.

6. No arguments about counting systems, tuning methods, articulation styles, etc. My staff meeting consist of three people. Me, myself and I.

I told the superintendent all of this with the understanding that if I one day left or retired, it would be a good idea to ask the new person whether or not they wanted to add an assistant. He's a great guy. He decided that since I didn't want an assistant, that I should get a raise. The extra 6k will be nice next year.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Percy on 5/13/2022, 10:05 pm, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

This message screams controlling boss. Probably best you don’t have an assistant. Sounds like they’d be miserable.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by 2A guy formerly 1A guy on 5/16/2022, 1:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

Nope, but thank you for proving my point. Also, I'll take the 6k raise over adding a problem person to my program. It'll bump my retirement numbers up some more.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Jerry on 5/12/2022, 3:48 pm, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

This post makes me want a like button.

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by Diamond on 5/12/2022, 6:40 pm, in reply to "Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

Me too!

Re: Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

Posted by I knew on 5/11/2022, 7:36 am, in reply to "Things that make you go "Hmmm....""

I knew a place that burned through assistants every one or two years. The head wasn't bothered about training new ones. The assistant would work themselves to the bone for a recommendation and then jump ship for a place with fewer hours.

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