The Yellow Board

Intonation

Posted by Mr. C on 5/10/2022, 11:26 am

Anyone have any tried and true/out of the box strategies for developing intonation? (high school)

In my program, it's been the single largest struggle. Although we've hit it hard and made huge improvements, I feel like kids are getting really tired of hearing the "I" word. I wish there was a way to get results faster without having to beat it into their brains.

What do you do with your kids?

Re: Intonation

Posted by No tuners on 5/19/2022, 10:17 am, in reply to "Intonation"

With high school kids assuming they are making characteristic sounds use drones and 5ths to get them to hear. The 5th is sometimes easier to hear than unison. F around the room, pairs, trios, etc. are good ways to break up the monotany. In tone, In Tune was a great phrase I picked up from a Saucedo clinic. If the kids don't have the same tone then tuning is a struggle. Pair them off by instrument and have them work in a practice room or in the band hall sounding the same then sounding in tune. If they are very young, start with a tuner but get them off of it quickly. Observed a great 6A band program years ago and they don't have a tuner anywhere in the band hall. But they do at the junior highs so keep that in mind as to where they are and where you need to meet them.

Also, teach the kids how to tune problem notes. If the embouchure is correct and the horn is quality most of it should be pretty close. Learn the bad notes to see some faster gains.

Re: Intonation

Posted by I'm surprised... on 5/15/2022, 8:08 am, in reply to "Intonation"

that more people have not advocated for tuners. I've found that most kids benefit greatly from the visual reference and the immediate feedback relative to HOW MUCH out they are. This, combined with drone matching and singing leads to better ensemble pitch.

Additionally, you can't let it go in a rehearsal setting. Your tolerance on the podium needs to be virtually zero. Stop and address the problems as they arise.

Re: Intonation

Posted by Ex RGV BD on 5/16/2022, 5:05 pm, in reply to "Re: Intonation"

Harmony Director HD 300. It teaches kids to listen, and not look at a machine.

Re: Intonation

Posted by Well... on 5/15/2022, 11:16 pm, in reply to "Re: Intonation"

The reason you're not seeing much regarding tuners is that the benefit is also a liability...the visual reference. Humans, for the most part, are more visual learners that aural. The kids will rely more on what the see as opposed to what they are hearing.

How many times have you heard this: "We went to UIL, and the warm-up room was freezing, and that's where we tuned. Then we got on the stage and it was boiling hot, and it screwed up our tuning." Well, that tells me that they do too much "work with the tuner", and not enough listening and matching pitch. There isn't going to be a tuner on stage, but if the kids listen to each other and match pitch, then it won't matter which room was warmer/colder than the other. Judges used to tattoo all over my sheets, "intonation, pitch, tuning", right before they put the words "Three" or "Four" for my ratings. Once I laid off the tuner, using it only sparingly, and had the kids focus on listening to each other and matching pitch...those judge's comments went away, and the words "One" or "Two" ended up in the rating space. It isn't easy, and it needs to start at the MS level for it to become second nature at the HS level.

Re: Intonation

Posted by DSmrsgl on 5/11/2022, 1:28 pm, in reply to "Intonation"

This struggle is real.

The best advice I received over the years was to make sure that your students get good tone qualities.Concentrate the majority of your time with exercises/long tones/chorales that work on tone quality. Matching Unisons. Then work with the tuner to develop chord/interval recognition.

IN-TONE vs. IN-TUNE

A bad sound will sound out of tune even if the tuner shows it to be correct.

It is easier for students to hear out of tune if all have good sounds.

Re: Intonation

Posted by Work on tone on 5/11/2022, 11:50 am, in reply to "Intonation"

You are wasting you time trying to tune bad tone.

Re: Intonation

Posted by Question on 5/11/2022, 5:30 pm, in reply to "Re: Intonation"

What evidence do you have that Mr. C's band has bad tone?

Re: Intonation

Posted by Okay... on 5/15/2022, 11:41 pm, in reply to "Re: Intonation"

The fact that he said in his original post that he is tired of still hearing the "I" word. Improved intonation can still be bad intonation.

Re: Intonation

Posted by Question on 5/16/2022, 12:20 pm, in reply to "Re: Intonation"

Students can make a very lovely sound yet not have the musical skill to recognize that it's out of tune at times. Intonation is a LEARNED skill.

For all we know, OP's a young band director that doesn't know all his tuning tendencies that well, and the problems are purely mechanical.

OP is asking "how do I improve intonation" not "how do I improve my band's tone quality" in their post.

Re: Intonation

Posted by Thoughts on 5/11/2022, 9:39 am, in reply to "Intonation"

Have your students complete an intonation chart of their full range so they begin to develop an awareness of their pitch tendencies. While also practicing with a tuner, OUTSIDE of class! Make it a graded assignment.

How do you define active listening levels? While using the drone direct the students listening to:

1. How is my individual pitch in relation to the drone? Brighter (sharp) or duller (flat)? Do you hear waves in your sound?

2. Once you feel they are matching the drone, turn it off and stress SECTION listening! Are they matching across their section.

3. Once that sounds more dialed in, ask them to listen across the ensemble.

Another idea: OVERTONES! Talk about overtones. Have them play unison concert F and drone a concert C that is above the flutes in register. Ask them to listen for it. Then slowly make it quieter and quieter, but ask them to continue listening for the overtone. If they are balanced, blended, and in tune, you will hear a CLEAR overtone in the room.

Just a couple more ideas!

Re: Intonation

Posted by HS band guy on 5/11/2022, 9:32 am, in reply to "Intonation"

I agree with everything that's been mentioned. I use a light drone during long tones based around Concert F (three note remington, 4 note rotating remington, etc), but I make sure not to make it so loud that they can't hear themselves or their neighbor play. I often start the rehearsal by having them hum a concert F with drone as a pitch reference, then I take the drone away and have them move up or down in half steps, then try and "remember" where the F was. I feel it focuses their mind and their ear/pitch center. We do "F around the room" often and tune individuals in sections either as needed or assign specific days of the week to tune a section down the line. I make sure the kids understand what their "tuning notes" are and how to correctly use a tuner at home. In rehearsals, I try to make a big deal about typically flat/sharp notes on specific instruments and have them write a down or up arrow on the problem notes to remind them to adjust embouchure/air stream, etc. In rehearsals, try to find instruments playing the same pitch and have the students listen to either the lowest voice for pitch center or whatever instrument is in the most comfortable range to produce an in-tune sound. Hope this helps!

Re: Intonation

Posted by Mr. Dude on 5/11/2022, 7:42 am, in reply to "Intonation"

We don't talk about intonation as much we work on it.

We do F around the room every day, find the section that is the worse (sometimes 2) and tune that section(s). Also, breath support is really important, can't tune bad air support.

When working music, we'll spot tune certain chords, pitch by pitch because a lot of the times the octaves are worse offenders than 5ths or 3rds. Start with the root, add the 5th, then the 3rd, then any other note. That way the kids hear the notes in order of importance.

We also have a chord tuning exercise we do daily that helps the kids learn to listen to part relationships.

Re: Intonation

Posted by Old dude on 5/11/2022, 7:17 am, in reply to "Intonation"

Starting each rehearsal with unison/octave warm-ups has always been essential with my bands. It is difficult for players to match pitch well unless unless they can all produce "characteristic tone qualities". Matching pitch & TONE should be a daily goal. Having 1st chairs or directors demonstrate musical passages then adding players, encouraging everyone to listen carefully matching pitch and tone. I have always been a "tone before tech" teacher and it's worked well for my groups(a few HB's). I don't care how many notes a group can play. If they cannot produce characteristic sounds no one will want to hear them.

Re: Intonation

Posted by Me on 5/10/2022, 6:23 pm, in reply to "Intonation"

Four things that have helped greatly:

1) I keep a concert F drone playing through our Remington warm ups. When playing a three note set (i.e. Concert F-E-F), I emphasize that the last note must sound exactly like the first note.

2) I have brass buzz their Remington warmups at least twice per week while the woodwinds play

3) The last thing we do in warmups is Concert F around the room by sections every day.

4) At least twice per week, during our Remington warm up, we will play three notes (i.e. Concert F - E - F), then sing them

Once I instituted these, our intonation has improved a lot. Judges rarely mention issues at C/SR

Re: Intonation

Posted by Big Shot Bob on 5/10/2022, 3:18 pm, in reply to "Intonation"

Training students to listen carefully and match pitch is a good idea. Try humming, singing or vocalizing a simple scale or parts of a scale. Start slowly at first, this takes a lot of time but it will improve your band’s intonation. Use a well tuned piano or the Harmony Director if you have one. IMO, students will never play in tune if they don’t hear it first. There are too many bad notes on each instrument. Be patient with this approach.

Re: Intonation

Posted by SING on 5/10/2022, 2:38 pm, in reply to "Intonation"

SING.
ALOT.
A WHOLE LOT.
LIKE, A BUNCH. MORE OFTEN THAN YOU THINK.
SING.

Re: Intonation

Posted by ask on 5/10/2022, 2:00 pm, in reply to "Intonation"

Ask lots of questions to get them to really listen. "Who sounds different?" "What instrument/section sounds like they are out of tune?" "How do you sound compared to this person: higher, lower, same?"
In my opinion, that it the first step.
The next step is getting them to understand tendencies and what they can do both generally and specifically to raise/lower pitch.
Hope this helps.

Re: Intonation

Posted by yep on 5/13/2022, 5:31 am, in reply to "Re: Intonation"

This. You also need to give them specific feedback (both positive and negative) re: pitch. Something like "Clarinets, that A was really out of tune. Let's try putting down your right hand fingers to bring the pitch down."

For middle school students especially - I'm a big fan of alternate fingerings to help with pitch on long notes. This book has really helped me - Tuning Book

good luck

Re: Intonation

Posted by Garner's Approach on 5/11/2022, 6:47 am, in reply to "Re: Intonation"

I do not know if recordings are available, but Dr.Gary Garner's clinics were fantastic. Any of his publications on the subject of intonation are worth a read!

Re: Intonation

Posted by Story Teller on 5/12/2022, 6:03 am, in reply to "Re: Intonation"

Once upon a time in 3rd Division Land there was a clueless fellow who hammered away year after year trying to improve his UIL performances. "I don't understand why my bands can't make ones. We played every note perfectly and all the judges keep talking about is this darn intonation thing." An out of tune note is a wrong note always. Thank you Dr.Garner

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