The Yellow Board

What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?

Posted by Ross Grant on 4/16/2022, 8:46 am

I'm a retired director who supervises college student teachers. I would like to lead a Zoom session on "What did covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?"

I would love some thoughts on this topic, not just for soon-to-be BDs, but everyone.

- Thanks

Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?

Posted by Older Band Director on 4/19/2022, 4:24 pm, in reply to "What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?"

COVID taught us that we really do matter. Students need US to be with THEM in the classroom. Virtual does not work for our field. Students also need performances and competitions to give them feedback for their hard work. Having these both back this year has made a HUGE difference. Students are starting to get their brains back after two years of foggy-ness!

Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?

Posted by Birdo Directo on 4/18/2022, 8:26 am, in reply to "What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?"

Not trying to sound sarcastic at all but everything is "normal" where I'm at.

I have always built relationships first, then pedagogy.

However, I will also say my situation has always been a dumpster fire, which more schools are only just now experiencing. So you could say I've taught with a pandemic going on with my school the entire time lol.

Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?

Posted by Me on 4/16/2022, 3:09 pm, in reply to "What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?"

If I may be so bold.

Politics means more than reality. On both sides. And neither side was willing to admit when they were wrong.

Money/SES is the most important part of having a quality band program.

Could go on, but I’ll leave this here.

Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?

Posted by Agree on 4/18/2022, 10:54 am, in reply to "Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?"

People don't want to admit money and support really helps. I know a director who used to be an honor band finalist. For some reason he left that school and went to another school with less financial resources.....he makes 2's on a good year.

Money isn't everything and it certainly has its own issues but it sure helps.

Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?

Posted by Disagree on 4/17/2022, 11:53 am, in reply to "Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?"

The quality of the teachers is the most important part of having a quality program. Are the people in charge good human beings, are they strong on pedagogy, and are they willing to put in the work? If any of those are missing, then nothing else will matter.

Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?

Posted by Disagree on 4/17/2022, 3:12 pm, in reply to "Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?"

You can put a mediocre teacher in front of supported kids with good parents and get 1s. This happens regularly.

You can put an amalgamation of Dr. Tim and Eugene Corporon in front of kids without parental support and your program will struggle.

Without good SES (and parent support that comes with it) literally nothing else matters.

Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?

Posted by Yep on 4/26/2022, 11:29 am, in reply to "Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?"

Agree with "disagree." Anyone who says otherwise clearly hasn't taught in a variety of environments.

Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?

Posted by nope on 4/27/2022, 10:46 am, in reply to "Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?"

I am now teaching in a school with upper middle class to wealthy families. I previous taught in an extremely low income area. Band was very successful, parents were very supportive. Administration was very supportive, and that was the real key. I say that administrative support and not economic status makes the difference. If you have a bad, wimpy administration that caves to loud parents or wealthy parents, you don't have a prayer. Kids are kids. If the teacher is a good fit and is competent, it will work. If the teacher is a bad fit and/or incompetent, it won't work. I have 38 years of experience and have seen it.

Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?

Posted by If on 5/2/2022, 8:20 am, in reply to "Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?"

If that admin also is supportive financially. Bad equipment and lack of external education factors can be overcome at the district level. Supportive instruction, (district positions to have enough staff to offset loss of private lessons, bringing in those master-class folks at district expense, etc.), is also critical in those lower SES areas.

I was in a lower SES for decades and a supportive admin was critical. I agree. But not just in keeping parents in check but also making what physically goes on the field or the stage level as well. When schools are spending 100k or more on a marching show including extra guard and marching techs, dance instructors, body movement coaches, custom writing, specialized props, etc., it doesn't matter how supportive the admin is if they don't offset those differences. Stage is totally different and is much easier to level out for low SES with a few quality instruments and good teaching.

Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?

Posted by Support on 4/19/2022, 8:29 am, in reply to "Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?"

It doesn't have to be good SE support from parents. The district can provide those resources if they choose. Quality instruments with quality instruction and quality support (enough staff to lower the student/teacher ratio, master classes, private lessons to some degree) to level that playing field that parents might be doing in those high SES locations. Parents without money can help with boosters, volunteer, and be involved in their child's education just as much as those of more affluent communities. It just takes someone else throwing the financial support behind.

It does take a good instructor in those lower SES areas that can motivate the kids. I have witnessed a lot of times where what you are saying is correct with great kids and home support of those things like lessons and equipment carrying a not so great teacher. And I am a lifelong Socio-Eco Disadvantaged teacher.

Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?

Posted by Diamond on 4/17/2022, 7:41 pm, in reply to "Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?"

The quality of the teachers is the most important part of having a quality program. I second this comment!!!

Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?

Posted by DesertJazz on 4/16/2022, 2:38 pm, in reply to "What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?"

Well, let me preface this with we had some kids in person by September 2020, and all at the beginning of November 2020, so others may have found greater successes virtually due to the longer time they were dealing with it.

1) The value of social interactions of kids (5th Grade and 7th grade in particular) are of insurmountable value. The norms kids learn and how to 'be nice' or 'work with' others when in person were lost for those students, and I think every director/teacher/principal I've spoken with has seen the same things. Our now 7th and 9th graders are by far universally the most challenging students to work with for discipline.

2) Teaching students remotely successfully is only a possibility with the top 5-10% of kids, when they have supportive parents. The lower in the socioeconomic status a family is, the far greater chance they disappeared off the face of the planet.

3) We should be cognizant of future viral outbreaks and our potential role in the spread of them. We did bell covers and slitted masks in 2020-2021, and I can say fairly certainly that we didn't spread in our rehearsals. Since masks weren't allowed I didn't move forward with them this year. I have no proof of in-class spread, because these kids are friends, but I definitely saw a good chunk of one row out one after another in January. At this point pretty much every person has exposure to a vaccine or an infection at this point, so at least it's not a truly 'novel' virus at this point. That being said who's to say in the future we won't have something equally as contagious, but more virulent? (Personally I'd like to think 1:100 years means we've had it, but Spanish Flu was followed by Polio, Smallpox, and Measles as major spreading bugs)

4) It is JUST band. Sometimes during the shutdown I was so stressed... But you have to remember that in the end you can only do what you can do. I think most of us have probably reevaluated a lot of our extra hours since everything has happened. Work will still be there when we get back the next day!

5) Relationships matter! I know for a fact that my engagement with some students helped them keep going. On the opposite side up until about January I honestly haven't felt that close relationship with my current seniors and juniors like I normally do. I think that last year even when we were in person, the natural reaction was to keep away from each other physically - which affected our emotional/musical relationships too.

Honestly, I will forever feel for the kids who are in the 2-20 bracket right now. The younger ones will move past things faster I think, but we have a whole generation that was upended in the past couple of years. Socially, Academically, and Musically I feel like there's a been a big stunting of growth. They are the most different generation we've had in the last 50-70 years.

Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?

Posted by Agreed on 4/19/2022, 6:51 am, in reply to "Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?"

I love that you touched on certain ages of kids being the most affected, or as you said, challenging.

For us, it was the students who were 6th and 9th graders during Spring 2020. While they have generally bounced back, I've noticed in the last two years that there are behavioral/commitment issues on top of playing ability issues that are unique to those grade levels.

We are in West Texas and came back in-person in the Fall of 2020, so we were as "normal" as possible, but I say that with a grain of salt.

The reason I think these two grades had the most difficulty with Covid is due to the time of year they missed and the completion of that year.

Because they missed the last 25% of the year, our 9th graders missed their first HS UIL Concert and Sight-reading contest, their end of year banquet, spring concert and auditions for the next year. This meant that they were still effectively freshmen along with our actual freshmen in Spring 2021.

You may say, well those 9th graders had at least been to UIL contests in JH and, of course, you are correct. However, like many JH to HS programs, our 9th graders take a big leap in repertoire. It is not uncommon for the students to increase grade level as much as three grade levels from JH to HS (but on average usually two. E.g. - Some of our 9th graders this year have only played two grade 1's at JH contest. Today they will perform in a HS NV Band that is playing a 4 and a 3 and a challenging march.)

Sixth graders missed the 2nd most important part of the year: the end. Everything we do during the beginner year is geared to that last 25% of the year: Scale Incentives (we had just barely started), End of Year Concert/Contest (they don't really get to play in a full band setting until then), End of Year Parties (always help with retention... guess how the retention is with our current 8th graders...) and more advanced skills being learned due to trying to "beat the calendar" with those students.

(By the way, the first Six Weeks of the beginner band student's year is THE most important. It sets the tone for literally everything you want to ever achieve in your band program from grade 6 to 12. Some of us need to take those six weeks much more seriously. Another post, another day?)

Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?

Posted by Elementary Teacher on 4/19/2022, 12:02 pm, in reply to "Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?"

Consider this, folks who teach 6th grade band:

Your incoming 6th grade this next year by and large are emotionally 3rd graders.

They didn't finish their 3rd grade year - so they never transitioned out of that mentality. They lost most of their 4th - and last year was NOT a great year for ANYONE in ANY situation in terms of enforcing a "normal school environment." And this year has been so focused on making up for all the "learning loss" that their "kid" time has been largely GONE all year - they are so tired and stressed that they lash out at each other (and their teachers) ALL the time.

They're INCREDIBLY immature in some ways and WAY TOO mature in others - they've spent the last year+ on Tiktok and YouTube (among other, less savory sites). They've literally been raised by computer algorithms. And they think that those behaviors are not only normal but APPROPRIATE.

To top it off: many of those kids have lost TONS of "specials" time because of the need to cram in extra STAAR review because many of 'em are literally a full grade level behind across the board academically.

Plan on moving SLOWLY next year, and spending a lot of extra time on things due to kids being super immature. Many kids will BARELY be able to read music and know basic musical skills. Hell - many kids are BARELY be able to READ, PERIOD.

I've been saying for a long time now that the pandemic will set band/choir/orchestra performance back a decade. We're now going into Year 2 of overcoming it. Some programs will make it happen faster, but by and large, expect next year to be TOUGH - especially at the beginning of the year.

Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?

Posted by Treble Chef on 4/20/2022, 12:29 pm, in reply to "Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?"

Good realistic observations.

I think the most important thing we learned (if indeed we did) was about our collective selves. The only thing we had to fear was fear itself, and boy did we ever fear it.

Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?

Posted by Ross on 4/17/2022, 8:16 pm, in reply to "Re: What did Covid teach us about band, in-school learning, and kids?"

- Great response --- thanks!

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