The Yellow Board

Middle School classifications

Posted by DotDot Goose on 2/17/2021, 4:57 pm

Is there a reason why middle school classification never gets adjusted?

I know at some point within the past decades it has probably changed but does anyone know when?

We've been back and forth in C and CC but our high school is a solid AAA...like 70 kids short of AAAA but yet we're the only middle school program in our region that is a CC that feeds into a AAA high school.

Re: Middle School classifications

Posted by DesertJazz on 2/18/2021, 8:18 am, in reply to "Middle School classifications"

It's because UIL doesn't realistically care all that much about middle school classifications. They don't really have a reason to since there are no state championships to worry about, and I know in our 3A the MS kids sometimes play schools bigger than us. Really the only competitive events that the size really effects is music as far as I know - which isn't even that many UIL events... It effects Honor Band, OPS, and Region Auditions more than it does them.

As far as being the only 2C into a 3A, we have like 3 or 4 of those in our region now. The odd one that we have now is a 3C feeding into a 4A because those numbers were expanded so far this year.

I know a friend of mine is always frustrated that 2C incorporates programs your size all the way up to some 5A/6A feeders.

It would be nice of UIL to re-examine this. If someone submitted a proposal perhaps they would...?

Re: Middle School classifications

Posted by DotDot Goose on 2/18/2021, 9:15 am, in reply to "Re: Middle School classifications"

IMO, your middle school classification should be dictated by what HS you feed. However for that to work we would probably need to add another middle school classification

C-A/AA/AAA
CC-AAA/AAAA
CCC-AAAAA
CCCC-AAAAAA

Re: Middle School classifications

Posted by vsrf on 2/18/2021, 7:33 pm, in reply to "Re: Middle School classifications"

Middle school philosophies in districts are so varied that it is hard to make something even close to consistent. One district may have a philosophy of keeping the MSs small, so they may have three 2C MSs that feed one big 5A HS. I taught in a district with one big 3C MS and one small 5A HS.

When you get into small schools it gets really wild. I taught in a 2A HS where we started as 6th graders, had a 7th grade MS band, then marched 8th graders. Other 2As in our region started 5th graders and did not march 8th graders. Same C MS class. I was putting 2nd year 7th graders on after 3rd/4th year 7th/8th graders.

The more complicated you try to make it to make it 'fair' the more problems will crop up. I think this is where the KISS principle applies and just work with it.

Re: Middle School classifications

Posted by DotDot Goose on 2/18/2021, 12:26 pm, in reply to "Re: Middle School classifications"

CC-AAAA* ...not AAA/AAAA

Re: Middle School classifications

Posted by Annon on 2/18/2021, 12:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Middle School classifications"

So then (and obviously this is hypothetical):

CCC—sight reads a level 3
CCCC—sight reads a level 4???

Then an 8th grader who sight read a level 4 will then be in the 5th or 4th band as a 9th grader and read a level 2?

A similar circumstance should be considered regarding stage music requirements.

Re: Middle School classifications

Posted by DotDot Goose on 2/19/2021, 8:12 am, in reply to "Re: Middle School classifications"

PML level and SR level are something that would also have to be addressed/tweaked.

But the bottom line is, IMO, our middle school classification should reflect the size of high school we feed rather than being totally disconnected like it currently is.

Re: Middle School classifications

Posted by DesertJazz on 2/18/2021, 2:53 pm, in reply to "Re: Middle School classifications"

This is definitely the issue I see with just trying to make five conferences or so. It's not an easy solution. I think I played around with the idea of numbers with making it C-CCCC one time just for curiosity. You would need to make it to where the bottom two conferences were the same as 1C right now. Although with UIL doing this Grade .5 this year for sight-reading I wonder if that could be incorporated into it.

You're absolutely correct though that the idea of just saying that a 4C reads a Level 4 would be nuts. I already think that 3C's reading the Level 3 on some years is ridiculous too. I know there are 3Cs with zero problem doing so, but there are also those that have worse circumstances than our 1C.

Re: Middle School classifications

Posted by Me on 2/18/2021, 9:47 pm, in reply to "Re: Middle School classifications"

Respectfully, there is an easy solution.

MS and HS groups should read different music.

Didn’t say it’d be a cheap solution, though.

Re: Middle School classifications

Posted by DesertJazz on 2/19/2021, 7:43 am, in reply to "Re: Middle School classifications"

I would be in favor of that in theory! I would even be happy to pay $25 more for an entry fee if we needed to per group. (Easily cover the cost since UIL pays so low for that music last I knew) My only fear is the inconsistency we've been seeing with sight-reading would be even worse with an additional number of pieces... Especially since the Level 1-3 seem to have issues with at least one of them every year.

Re: Middle School classifications

Posted by Therein lies.. on 2/19/2021, 12:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Middle School classifications"

the problem.

Do you write the level 3 for the CCC middle school?

The 3A Varsity band?

Or for the 5A Non Varsity?

Each of those groups potentially has DRASTICALLY different needs and likely skills. They shouldn't be reading the same piece.

Multiply that across the board with the level 2 (2A Varsity, CC Varsity, 4A NV, 2A Varsity), and Level 1 - (C Varsity, A Varsity, EVERY single MS classification NV) and you see the issue.

Re: Middle School classifications

Posted by Friendly Ammendment on 2/19/2021, 6:12 pm, in reply to "Re: Middle School classifications"

You make very good points, with one minor correction: 1A varsity reads the Level 2 just like 2A varsity, not the Level 1.

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