The Yellow Board

Employment and Quarantine

Posted by Socialite on 1/28/2021, 11:08 am

Good morning.

I'm just coming back from a quarantine due to exposure in my personal life (We had some friends over for a game night, got exposed, and had to quarantine).

I'm slightly worried that if it happens again because of exposure in our personal life that the district could take actions regarding my contract.

Does the district have the right to non-renew a contract (assume its term, not provisional) because I've had to been quarantined too many times?

(Just as a side, this is the first and only time I've been quarantined. I am low-key worried that if it happens again the district will look poorly on it and choose to not renew my contract)

What are y'alls thoughts?

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by 2 Cents on 2/1/2021, 9:17 am, in reply to "Employment and Quarantine"

I don't think they should be able to tell you what you can or can't do outside of work.
However, I think you should be responsible enough to not put yourself into a possible quarantine position.
For example, the best solution is to not have something like that at all, or at least use virtual table top available on Steam.
Next best solution would be to have it outdoors with masks and physical distancing. Third best would be to have it indoors with open windows, masks, and physical distancing.

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by Judgy McJudgerson on 1/28/2021, 6:14 pm, in reply to "Employment and Quarantine"

Probably not wise to have folks over.

Probably even better not to let your employer know.

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by MS director on 1/28/2021, 3:11 pm, in reply to "Employment and Quarantine"

I dont think they will "fire" you.

However if the quarantine happened after December 31st, all those days are coming out of your personal/sick days. So if it happens again and unless you have saved up a ton of days, your paycheck will be deducted. For my district in particular they will take away from my daily rate each day I am absent.

Hopefully you have plenty of days saved up!

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by luckily on 1/29/2021, 7:09 am, in reply to "Re: Employment and Quarantine"

Thankfully our school board voted to extend those days until the end of the school year. It's very nice to be in a place that is able to help their teachers! Some districts are not so fortunate.

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by No on 1/28/2021, 2:40 pm, in reply to "Employment and Quarantine"

Don't post it on social media and don't talk about it. You don't have to declare where your close contact came in if it wasn't at school. You simply tell them due to CDC recommendations you are in quarantine because of close contact. End of discussion.

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by Suggestion on 1/28/2021, 2:02 pm, in reply to "Employment and Quarantine"

If you aren't a member of TCTA or ATPE, or something join one of them now.

This is a question for one of their lawyers honestly. Personally we have a staff member who was in this boat for way too much of the fall. Their supervisor is a principal on their campus (teach another subject and our guard), and I don't know what they'll decide. It's honestly questionable for renewal to me with having been out four or five times in the fall. If it's not from exposure at work that does start to seem like something to be annoyed by.

Might be the year not to have those social events going on? Just my personal thought.

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by any school on 1/29/2021, 6:47 am, in reply to "Re: Employment and Quarantine"

Any ISD that non-renews because of COVID has set themselves up to lose big time in arbitration or a court, no judge is going to allow that during a pandemic.
On the other hand, if there are other documented reasons watch out, COVID won't save you from poor performance.

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by Unfortunately.. on 2/1/2021, 11:29 am, in reply to "Re: Employment and Quarantine"

Texas is an at-will state. They can fire you for literally any reason not prohibited in your contract. If you have contract or evaluatory language that includes attendance, COVID or not, they can justify your nonrenewal.

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by No on 2/1/2021, 3:26 pm, in reply to "Re: Employment and Quarantine"

Staff (admin assistance, cafe workers, etc) are at-will. We are not. We are contracted workers that are afforded "due process" when our contract is considered for non-renewal.

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by Well... on 2/1/2021, 1:05 pm, in reply to "Re: Employment and Quarantine"

...that's not exactly how "at-will" works. "At-will" means that you can be fired at any time at the whim of the employer. "At-will" does not apply if you are currently under contract as you can not be fired on a whim at any time unless you as employee commit a breach of contract, or otherwise violate the terms. Unless that happens, you complete the contract, and then the employer can choose to not give you a contract renewal.

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by No job on 1/28/2021, 2:46 pm, in reply to "Re: Employment and Quarantine"

No job is more important than my life and no job that I'm interested in having will dictate what I do outside of work. I understand the employer has a right to not have me around if I make them look bad so I'll find a job that fits my lifestyle. When a teacher leaves they are replaced.

I'm not giving up another year of my life. Did that once. Went a year without seeing family trying to follow the science and piece together all the different "truths" being told to us. And now, there are people I will never see again because they have crossed the bridge. Was it worth it? That's a question we have to answer individually. For me, I'm not so sure because in hindsight, there are a lot of things I wished I could have asked them and learned about them and now I can't.

For me, teaching is not a job that's worth me giving up a year of my life. Maybe if I was the starting QB for the Texans I'd do some special things but teaching - nope.

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by Houston on 1/28/2021, 1:36 pm, in reply to "Employment and Quarantine"

If you were in our district, you wouldn't have to quarantine for exposure at work. They don't actually tells us when we have been exposed to students or staff that have tested Covid positive. They just send out a general notice to everyone that someone on campus tested positive and expect everyone to come to work the next day.

Large district. Our cases are starting to go up.

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by me on 1/28/2021, 1:36 pm, in reply to "Employment and Quarantine"

That's a complicated question being that this whole thing is new to everyone. Band is a fickle occupation. We live in this weird political sphere of influence. It doesn't matter how good you've done, as soon as certain important people in your district get upset with you all of the sudden you get these weird talks about looking for other jobs and how they'll write you an awesome recommendation. That being said, I would think that you missing due to covid exposure shouldn't matter. But, refer to what I said up at the top. Many times in my career I've seen directors go thru various scenarios where their retention or firing didn't make sense. I think that you try to come to work when you can. Stop gathering with your friends at home or wherever. That just makes sense. Your friends are going to have to understand. If you're an assistant under an extremely demanding boss, you may find yourself with issues. Go above and beyond to teach at the highest level and make it to where your boss doesn't get upset with you. If you're on a probationary contract your employer can release you for any reason. If you're on a normal contract, they have to make reasons but all it takes is documenting little mistakes and putting you on a growth plan where they will nit pick you for everything you've done until you want to leave. My best wishes to you!

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by Kramer on 1/28/2021, 12:21 pm, in reply to "Employment and Quarantine"

It takes a good bit of documentation to non-renew a term contract.

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by However, on 1/31/2021, 10:15 am, in reply to "Re: Employment and Quarantine"

what they can do is reassign you.

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by Except... on 1/28/2021, 3:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Employment and Quarantine"

...not when the term has been completed, the documentation part comes into play when the school wants to get rid of you in the middle of a contract...like after year 2 on a 3 year contract for example. That is why districts' attorneys always recommend to school boards to only hand out 1-year contracts regardless if they are term or probationary. That way it is easier to get rid of a teacher on a term contract.

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by hmmm on 1/29/2021, 7:45 am, in reply to "Re: Employment and Quarantine"

Yet, superintendents get multi-year contracts right out of the box. I've seen many superintendents get their contracts bought out by school boards, then the same superintendent pockets that money and goes on to be the superintendent of another district with another 6 figure salary. I think the system is broken. We're quick to get rid of a teacher for any stupid reason, but we'll hand out these iron clad contracts to superintendents when they are brand new to a district. Amazing!

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by Yes... on 1/29/2021, 9:33 am, in reply to "Re: Employment and Quarantine"

...but consider the other side of that coin...there is, supposedly, an administrator shortage. That is why we have bad supers being passed around like a cold. Also, to be fair, there needs to be *some* stability at the top when that person is responsible for the direction the district is going to take...otherwise you get a district behaving like a ship with no rudder.

And since I'm here, the poster below talking about a teacher having propriety rights to their position, I have to beg to differ. A few years ago, when I was fresh out of school, I taught with a choir director who had been at the district for 12 years. No problems, no write-ups, no growth plans ever. Obviously on a term contract. They were non-renewed. They showed me the letter that was delivered by certified mail....yes, they were non-renewed. That fall, we had a new choir director.

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by hmmm on 2/1/2021, 8:24 am, in reply to "Re: Employment and Quarantine"

Lol. No, there is no shortage of administrators in Texas. In fact, there are way too many due to the positions that have been "created" within some districts. Yes there has to be stability at the top. However, since that person is responsible for "the direction the district is going to take", it is imperative that this person starts out with a probationary contract so that they can be removed if they turn out to be corrupt or incompetent. Who can cause the most damage? A 5th grade teacher who runs one classroom of 22 kids or a superintendent who gets to make large decisions for thousands of kids, hundreds of teachers and staff? And before you say, the superintendent has to answer to a school board, remember that the teacher must answer to several people ranging from department heads, supervisors, principals, assistant principals and so on. Those people are employed full time and have access to the teacher every single day. The school board does not work for the school and is not there every day to see what's going on. I say all of this to make the point that we are willing to place the destiny of an entire district in the hands of a new superintendent by giving him or her an iron clad contract right out of the box, but we place teachers on probationary or one year term contracts forever, even though they are only in charge of one thing within their subject area. I still maintain that the system is broken.

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by And... on 2/1/2021, 9:30 am, in reply to "Re: Employment and Quarantine"

If someone is that corrupt or incompetent, they will get tossed...has happened, does happen, will continue to happen, regardless if they're on a probationary contract or a 5 year term (the longest contract term available). And unless the superintendent is grossly incompetent, it takes at least 2-3 years to see if their direction is working or not.

To answer your question, the 5th grade teacher can cause the most damage, as they are working directly with the students on a daily basis...especially if they continue to use unsuccessful strategies and policies that a new superintendent is changing.

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by hmmm on 2/2/2021, 8:21 am, in reply to "Re: Employment and Quarantine"

So, we need to wait 2-3 years to see if a superintendent's direction is working, but we can just simply toss a 5th grade teacher after a year and not wait to see if that teacher's direction is working? And someone responsible for 22 can do more damage than someone responsible for thousands? I don't follow that. And, I can personally attest to the fact that a corrupt superintendent won't get tossed right away. I've worked for more than one who was allowed to cause immense damage to the district causing test scores to plummet, quality teachers to quit and the budget wasted on extra administrative assistants and new assistant superintendents, all while the school board sat on their hands and did nothing more than be a rubber stamp for the superintendent. And the 5th grade teacher can't get her job done due to lack of materials, micro-managing and constant interference. Not sure how long you've been in education, but I've been in almost 40 years and have seen it first hand. Brand new superintendents do NOT need iron clad 5 years contracts. They should be under the same scrutiny that we place teachers. Actually, they should be under more scrutiny since they hold more power.

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by Houston on 2/4/2021, 9:22 am, in reply to "Re: Employment and Quarantine"

That 5th grade teacher has a group of kids for 1 year. It's pretty easy to see in that one year if what they did in the classroom worked. The super is making wider impact and yes, will be slower to see. It isn't like the 5th grade teacher has multiple years to get results since those kids will be 6th graders the next year. Unlike a band program which can develop over time, a single grade teacher isn't "developing" a program.

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by Beagle on 1/30/2021, 8:28 am, in reply to "Re: Employment and Quarantine"

And had that choir teacher known their rights, they had a textbook case for improper dismissal. But since we live in a state that actively works to suppress teacher knowledge of their rights and our ability to collectively bargain, this happens on the regular.

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by Yes... on 1/30/2021, 9:52 am, in reply to "Re: Employment and Quarantine"

...except they were in contact with their ATPE attorney. ATPE said they had no case.

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by Response on 1/29/2021, 9:13 am, in reply to "Re: Employment and Quarantine"

Think anyone would take over as Superintendent of "has been close to being taken over by the state due to failing test scores" ISD if they didn't have a guaranteed multi-year contract and job security?

Think anyone would take over "multiple-high-school inner city district with gang problems and a local media that loves to find waste and 'illegal' activities" ISD if they didn't get paid handsomely for the headache?

Or you can think of it this way. No matter that it's one of thirty two of such jobs in the world: Think anyone would coach the Cowboys, with all the headache it entails, for $125k a year on a one year deal?

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by okay on 2/1/2021, 8:33 am, in reply to "Re: Employment and Quarantine"

Yes I do think a superintendent would take over a failing district if the price is right. In fact, I know they would because I have worked for some. So, you think that we should not have the same type of accountability for superintendents that we demand from teachers? So, every district in the state of Texas is failing, inner-city with multiple high schools (no elementary schools, intermediate or middle schools)? Not every inner-city school district has failing schools and gangs. That would be like me saying that every suburban school district has mass shootings. As far as an NFL team, that is not comparable to a discussion about education. Now from the teacher angle, using your arguments, why would a teacher want to teach in an inner-city district for possibly one year with no guarantee of job security? Don't students and programs get better through teacher stability?

Re: Employment and Quarantine

Posted by Me on 1/28/2021, 4:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Employment and Quarantine"

Hate to 'well, actually' but ..

Well, actually..

You're pretty well guaranteed a contract renewal unless they have notified you in writing that they intend to non-renew you, usually 60 school days before the end of term.

And in order do that, state law requires that you be placed on a growth plan .. so you're usually pretty safe unless that happens by Spring Break.

In short, if you ever get a growth plan, you're toast.

You have what's considered by case law as a "property right" to your job and employment, and they can't take it away without due process.

Now, financial exigency, program changes - those can override this. We all need to be watching the leg very closely, because they're going to slash education funding again this biennium - meaning districts will be cutting a ton of staff, yet again.

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