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D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band

Posted by Just A Thought on 12/13/2020, 9:03 pm

Before I get run out on a rail, I just thought about how we can justify a Military Marching Band track and not seriously think about the disadvantages smaller schools encounter at the Area and State Level with Marching Bands in Open class. The same rationale can be used that is used for Football (smaller enrollments). It's hard to compete with bands that have 150 when you have 80.Since we are making accommodations for every situation, lets do it across the board FOR EVERYONE.

Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band

Posted by You know on 12/14/2020, 9:47 am, in reply to "D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band "

There are 6a bands that would go D1 and only have 90 kids in band. On the other side there are schools that would go D2 and have 270. How is this equitable?

Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band

Posted by I think on 12/14/2020, 2:01 pm, in reply to "Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band "

I believe they mean base it on your school enrollment the way football does. Not band size.

Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band

Posted by OP on 12/15/2020, 1:19 pm, in reply to "Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band "

I actually meant by band size. Sorry for any confusion. Was just upset that there is no way for me to grow my band to 150 (in the "small school division) at my D2 school where athletics is king.

Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band

Posted by Exactly on 12/14/2020, 5:27 pm, in reply to "Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band "

There are 6a bands whose football programs go D1 because their school is the largest in the district, and the band has less than 100 kids in it. There are also schools that go D2 because the school population is smaller than the others and the bands have 250+.

Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band

Posted by Concerned on 12/14/2020, 7:09 am, in reply to "D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band "

I have been concerned that UIL Musiic is making too many changes too fast.

Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band

Posted by So True on 12/14/2020, 6:50 am, in reply to "D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band "

This is an issue with the system we are using. Look at 6A. How can a school with 2400 students compete with a school with 3500 or more. There is no comparison. It is obvious that there is NO common sense when it comes to band numbers.

The system is broken in the aspect, yet we keep doing what we are doing, we will keep getting what we are getting.

Conference Cutoffs

6A: 2220 and above 249 schools: 249 (Basketball); 249 (Football); 247 (Volleyball)

5A: 1210 – 2219 254 schools: 253 (Basketball); 251 (Football); 253 (Volleyball)

4A: 515 – 1209 202 schools: 198 (Basketball); 184 (Football); 198 (Volleyball)

3A: 230 – 514 236 schools: 236 (Basketball); 212 (Football); 223 (Volleyball)

2A: 105 – 229 200 schools: 200 (Basketball); 190 (Football); 136 (Volleyball)

1A: 104.9 and below 220 schools: 217 (Basketball); 153 (Football); 118 (Volleyball)

1A – 5A Football Division I and Division II Numbers

1A Division I: 59.5 – 104.9 77 schools

1A Division II: 59.4 and below 76 schools

2A Division I: 165.5 – 229 96 schools

2A Division II: 105 – 165.4 94 schools

3A Division I: 350 – 514 106 schools

3A Division II: 230 – 349 106 schools

4A Division I: 865 – 1209 92 schools

4A Division II: 515 – 864 92 schools

5A Division I: 1900 – 2219 126 schools

5A Division II: 1210 – 1899 125 schools

Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band

Posted by jack shaftoe on 12/14/2020, 12:08 pm, in reply to "Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band "

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think ALL 1A schools play 6man FB, and would therefor be used to marching on a field with different markings.

How do schools that are on the borderline between 1A and 2A that might go back and forth between 6man and 11 man handle the transition?

Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band

Posted by Warhawk on 12/14/2020, 2:54 pm, in reply to "Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band "

No, there are several 1A schools that play 11 man football because, in their eyes, that's real football.

Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band

Posted by Umm.. on 12/15/2020, 9:53 am, in reply to "Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band "

Wrong. If that's the case, they're a 2A school.

There is no more 1A Six-Man vs 1A 11-Man split.

1A is Six-Man. Only. 2A is 11-man. There is an enrollment overlap between 1A and 2A for that very reason.

That was the entire point of 6A being created - so that there weren't two separate 1A classes anymore.

Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band

Posted by Warhawk on 12/15/2020, 1:10 pm, in reply to "Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band "

Munday High School is classed as a 1A school but chooses to play 11 man football.

Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band

Posted by Splitting hairs on 12/15/2020, 4:31 pm, in reply to "Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band "

And they compete as 11-man football in which classification?

Let me give you a hint. No. Let me just directly tell you: They're in District 6-2A.

No 1A school plays 11-man football *as a 1A school* no matter what hairs you split.

Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band

Posted by WBB on 12/14/2020, 1:44 pm, in reply to "Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band "

Some 1A schools opt to play 2A 11-man football. That can still leave the band and other activities competing in 1A.

Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band

Posted by Missing the mark on 12/14/2020, 8:23 am, in reply to "Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band "

Take that and play it across the board for every classification.

"How can a school with 515 students compete with one with 1200 students? That's literally more than twice as many!" (4A)

"How can a school with 230 students compete with a school with 514 students! That's literally more than twice the enrollment!" (3A)

It's. Every. Classification. Claiming that it's a 6A problem is simply not the case. You're also making a mountain out of a molehill. According to the attendance numbers turned in for this alignment round, there are only seventeen 6A schools in Texas with an enrollment over 4,000. There are 31 over 3500. There are 128 6A schools. Most of 6A isn't as big as you think it is.

Unless we have micro-classes and 70 state championships (which our football teams would likely support) there will ALWAYS be minor inequities in the process. Claiming that 6As are put upon because there are thirty or so "really big" 6As (many of whom aren't competitive past the Region level) is simply sour grapes.

I would also claim that the difference between 2400 students and 3500 students is MUCH smaller than the difference between 550 students and 1100 students. At both 6A schools, there's likely three band directors, a full time percussion specialist, and a private lesson staff. At the (probably rural) 4A with 550 students, there's probably a single band director - maybe a MS director that counts as the HS assistant. At a 1200 student 4A, you're talking about two directors, maybe a percussion para, and access to lesson staff.

The inequities in the system are there. But 6A isn't where they're located. That's why they created ATSSB in the first place.

The answer is a simple one - stop making marching competition be based upon school enrollment. Make it on band enrollment. Inner-city schools who put 25 kids on the field shouldn't be judged in the same category as state marching contest medal winners and honor band candidates with 300 kids in the program, which regularly occurs in my region.

Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band

Posted by John on 12/14/2020, 1:54 pm, in reply to "Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band "

"stop making marching competition be based upon school enrollment. Make it on band enrollment"

Probably the smartest said statement in Texas this year! I totally agree!

Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band

Posted by Respectfully on 12/14/2020, 5:16 pm, in reply to "Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band "

Disagree. I used to teach at a small 3a. Many years we had more students than the 4a’s down the road. Like twice the number. Do you think we should have competed with the bigger bands? Remember those 4a schools get more funding because of total enrollment not band enrollment.

Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band

Posted by Also on 12/14/2020, 11:46 pm, in reply to "Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band "

It would be easy to “cheat” if our classification was decided by number of band students. What’s to stop me from making it an audition only group in class 4a to force me into class A with say 50 amazing players? How do you monitor this process?
We have directors who would manipulate the system to gain “achievement” in trophies.
The current system isn’t perfect but it’s difficult to fudge numbers. The football issue makes it correct.

Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band

Posted by In short... on 12/14/2020, 6:08 pm, in reply to "Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band "

Yes. You should compete with programs that are like yours. Period.

Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band

Posted by And... on 12/14/2020, 7:00 pm, in reply to "Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band "

...he is: similar sized schools, similar sized towns, similar sized tax bases, and funding levels from the state.

Is it his fault the larger schools down the road have smaller programs?

[mike drop]

Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band

Posted by Respectfully on 12/14/2020, 6:51 pm, in reply to "Re: D1 and D2 Classification for Marching Band "

So I should compete with bands at my socioeconomic level or my size? Which has more baring?

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