We're not talking Mary Karen fluting or Doc S. proper embouchures here. Just getting kids to understanding how to get a sound PERIOD on any brass instrument or flute simulation is a start. We are not starting on real instruments here, just trying to get kids turned on to creating sounds. Elementary music teachers don't get to concerned with their kids holding their sticks like a percussion teacher would teach. I would bet if you introduced 5th graders to the coke bottle concept you would have many more students able to get a sound when you have them try on an actual flute head joint! And playing songs on a garden hose is a hoot.