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NJ Scuba Divers Message Board
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U.S.C.S.S. Robert J. Walker ("Mason's paddlewheeler" off AC) now "off limits" to artifact hunters...

Posted by njdiver <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/Modiver/info/user=njdiver' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 11/16/2013, 11:39 am

Find out why and what to do if you already have artifacts from the wreck:

James P. Delgado, Ph.D.

Director of Maritime Heritage in the Office of National Marine Sanctuaries, NOAA

http://sanctuaries.noaa.gov/maritime/

http://sanctuaries.noaa.gov/maritime/contact_us.html

Will be our Guest Speaker at our November 20th meeting, 7:30 PM St. Luke’s Episcopal Church Meeting Room, Chestnut and Washington Streets, Union , NJ 07083

His talk will include:

The recent work of the Maritime Heritage Program on the Robert J. Walker off Atlantic City. His presentation will focus on his Department’s work and “what we do, why we do it, and how we do it, with a special emphasis on how we reach out to various partners and the public, and what the approach of no sanctuary, no permits will mean in regard to the Walker wreck.”

All are invited.

Re: U.S.C.S.S. Robert J. Walker ("Mason's paddlewheeler" off AC) now "off limits" to artifact hunters...

Posted by konger <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/Modiver/info/user=konger' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 11/18/2013, 2:08 pm, in reply to "U.S.C.S.S. Robert J. Walker ("Mason's paddlewheeler" off AC) now "off limits" to artifact hunters..."

NOAA should stick to the weather and policing commercial fisherman who carelessly entangle pots all over the wrecks. Those lost pots kill more fish and lobster than they catch.

Re: U.S.C.S.S. Robert J. Walker ("Mason's paddlewheeler" off AC) now "off limits" to artifact hunters...

Posted by GS <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/Modiver/info/user=GS' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 11/18/2013, 7:04 pm, in reply to "Re: U.S.C.S.S. Robert J. Walker ("Mason's paddlewheeler" off AC) now "off limits" to artifact hunters..."

NOAA can't even get the weather right much of the time !

Here is the preliminary report from NOAA...

Posted by njdiver <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/Modiver/info/user=njdiver' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 11/17/2013, 1:35 pm, in reply to "U.S.C.S.S. Robert J. Walker ("Mason's paddlewheeler" off AC) now "off limits" to artifact hunters..."

Pages 48 - 51 especially.

http://sanctuaries.noaa.gov/maritime/walker/pdfs/walker_report.pdf

Re: Here is the preliminary report from NOAA...

Posted by Kim Dixon <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/Modiver/info/user=Kim' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 11/17/2013, 3:56 pm, in reply to "Here is the preliminary report from NOAA..."

I was advised in August by NOAA that they had removed all reference to me and my blog from this report. I guess this goes to show that their word is not honorable...

They have updated the report...

Posted by njdiver <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/Modiver/info/user=njdiver' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 11/27/2013, 2:10 pm, in reply to "Re: Here is the preliminary report from NOAA..."

The reference and quote from your Blog has been deleted. This is the direct URL reached from their Robert J. Walker webpage.

http://sanctuaries.noaa.gov/maritime/walker/pdfs/walker_report.pdf

Here is how they do it...

Posted by njdiver <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/Modiver/info/user=njdiver' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 11/17/2013, 9:37 am, in reply to "U.S.C.S.S. Robert J. Walker ("Mason's paddlewheeler" off AC) now "off limits" to artifact hunters..."

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PPP-2000-book3/pdf/PPP-2000-book3-doc-pg2956-2.pdf

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/WCPD-2001-01-22/html/WCPD-2001-01-22-Pg195.htm

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2004-02-05/html/04-2488.htm

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq28-1.htm

http://www.uscg.mil/history/faqs/USCG_Shipwreck_Policy.asp

http://www.csc.noaa.gov/data/Documents/OceanLawSearch/Summary%20of%20Law%20-%20Sunken%20Military%20Craft%20Act.pdf

http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_books/fhpl/sunken_military_craft.pdf

http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/olc/docs/PL108-375.pdf

http://www.nps.gov/archeology/sites/SCR_Laws_PDF.pdf

Re: U.S.C.S.S. Robert J. Walker ("Mason's paddlewheeler" off AC) now "off limits" to artifact hunters...

Posted by hedge <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/Modiver/info/user=Hedge' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 11/17/2013, 7:56 am, in reply to "U.S.C.S.S. Robert J. Walker ("Mason's paddlewheeler" off AC) now "off limits" to artifact hunters..."

I'm not sure how NOAA can demand/take claim of artifacts taken before the actual date of action on their side. If they did or took by force I would expect they would need to provide compensation since in a way they are taking the wreck and the Artifacts by eminent domain.

Which of our other wrecks in next’s?!?!!?
Hedge

Re: U.S.C.S.S. Robert J. Walker ("Mason's paddlewheeler" off AC) now "off limits" to artifact hunters...

Posted by Duane <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/Modiver/info/user=porthole2' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 11/18/2013, 11:51 am, in reply to "Re: U.S.C.S.S. Robert J. Walker ("Mason's paddlewheeler" off AC) now "off limits" to artifact hunters..."

Doesn't NOAA claiming it as a NOAA owned vessel fall into the same category that he US Gov owned ships are always owned by the US Gov?

Like the San Diego?

Download the prelim report...

Posted by njdiver <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/Modiver/info/user=njdiver' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 11/18/2013, 2:25 pm, in reply to "Re: U.S.C.S.S. Robert J. Walker ("Mason's paddlewheeler" off AC) now "off limits" to artifact hunters..."

And read pages 48-51.

Re: Download the prelim report...

Posted by Duane <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/Modiver/info/user=porthole2' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 11/18/2013, 9:33 pm, in reply to "Download the prelim report..."

My question was rhetorical in nature.

Re: U.S.C.S.S. Robert J. Walker ("Mason's paddlewheeler" off AC) now "off limits" to artifact hunters...

Posted by Kim Dixon <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/Modiver/info/user=Kim' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 11/16/2013, 8:32 pm, in reply to "U.S.C.S.S. Robert J. Walker ("Mason's paddlewheeler" off AC) now "off limits" to artifact hunters..."

I too was unknowingly quoted from my copyrighted blog without my prior knowledge or permission. I spoke to a NOAA representative about the infringement and was advised that since my blog is on the internet it is "public information".

I do not find that there is sufficient proof presented to 100% identify the wreck as the Robert Walker. I find it irresponsible and wrong that NOAA is claiming this wreck including all the past and future artifacts based upon circumstantial evidence.

I created my blog to promote the sport of scuba diving and I am deeply saddened to find that NOAA chose to utilize my blog in such a negative way.

Copyright and Public Information

Posted by DaveF <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/Modiver/info/user=davef' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 11/28/2013, 9:44 am, in reply to "Re: U.S.C.S.S. Robert J. Walker ("Mason's paddlewheeler" off AC) now "off limits" to artifact hunters..."

Kim,

Sorry to go off-topic on your post, but when I see that someone (NOAA) is using the their power as a government agency to lie or bully I get really angry.

I'm not a lawyer, but I own a commercial video production company, plus I write, so I deal with copyright frequently.

As you probably know, just because something is on the web DOES NOT mean it is public information. By that reasoning, you could steal copies of TV shows off of network websites, movies off of Hollywood websites, and written reporting off the NY Times website and re-publish it as your own newspaper. You could also take things from the public library and copy it, since that's just as public as the internet. That line of reasoning is total Bull$*@t.

Posting on the web is not called "Submitting to the Public Domain." It is called "PUBLISHING."

If you have written it, as the author, you automatically own the copyright. Unless you have agreed to give the copyright to someone else. Period.

Anyone who steals your material is violating Federal law and you can file a complaint against them. If you have a copyright notice on your website, you can sue them for both actual damages and punitive damages. Without the copyright notice, you can only sue for actual damages, so always put a copyright notice on your blog. (Make sure it says "Copyright by your name, 2013 ALL RIGHTS RESERVED." Don't just write "This page is copyrighted.")

Under copyright law, their is something called "fair use" and they can quote you. How much content they can take for a quote is grey area. A few lines or paragraphs is probably okay, but a few chapters probably isn't. But they can't take your work and present it as their own.

Bottom line however, is that like kids posting photos of their drunken parties on facebook, what you post online can be easily found and used against you.

Safe diving, and keep writing your blog. I read it and I never have stolen it.

Re: Copyright and Public Information

Posted by Kim Dixon <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/Modiver/info/user=Kim' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 12/16/2013, 1:55 pm, in reply to "Copyright and Public Information"

I worked for a number of years as a Chemist and was involved in patent work and therefore, am very familiar with copyright law as well as patent law. It is a shame that I can't even share my personal adventures with other divers without worrying that someone will take advantage of it. I do have copyright information at the bottom of my blog and this NOAA issue will not stop me from sharing my adventures on my blog...Be Safe!

Re: U.S.C.S.S. Robert J. Walker ("Mason's paddlewheeler" off AC) now "off limits" to artifact hunters...

Posted by Whitt <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/Modiver/info/user=Whitt97' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 11/16/2013, 1:37 pm, in reply to "U.S.C.S.S. Robert J. Walker ("Mason's paddlewheeler" off AC) now "off limits" to artifact hunters..."

Just another great example of our tax dollars being wasted by a government agency trying to justify their existence.

Re: U.S.C.S.S. Robert J. Walker ("Mason's paddlewheeler" off AC) now "off limits" to artifact hunters...

Posted by Whitt <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/Modiver/info/user=Whitt97' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 11/16/2013, 1:32 pm, in reply to "U.S.C.S.S. Robert J. Walker ("Mason's paddlewheeler" off AC) now "off limits" to artifact hunters..."

Good luck with that...

Re: U.S.C.S.S. Robert J. Walker ("Mason's paddlewheeler" off AC) now "off limits" to artifact hunters...

Posted by Atlantic Diver <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/Modiver/info/user=Atlantic+Diver' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 11/16/2013, 4:29 pm, in reply to "Re: U.S.C.S.S. Robert J. Walker ("Mason's paddlewheeler" off AC) now "off limits" to artifact hunters..."

The question is what are they going to do with the copyrighted information they took from my website without my consent? Futhermore, when I was asked if wanted any credit for assisting them, I refused any gratius for any conclusions they surmounted by identifying the wreck in one dive without any concrete evidence. Lots of wrecks have been misnamed in the past by this method. A likely sumation, but not positively identified with any artifact with manufacturers serial numbers.

Did they even check the wreck just north of the site which is very simular in size to that also with an unsual engine? Probably some other paddlewheeler but worth checking before confirming identity.

NOAA will continue to do what they want with no restrictions...spending your money to do so... As in a study on the Stolt Dagali, to determine if a tanker was leaking coagulated solidified vegetable oil. How much money was wasted to publish a 42 page report on the obvious.

Good Wreck Diving!
Atlantic Diver

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