Posted by Angela on 10/22/2011, 9:31 am, in reply to "Sad News"
It seems to be a common attitude: WARM WATER=easy diving... I see it all the time in FLA.. And yes, we Jersey divers are the best prepared. Even in CA its amazing that the charter boats take divers that are not qualified or prepared (no hood no gloves, no pony) to 100ft wrecks... I know its not cool to look like a Jersey diver (believe me I had had my share of looks in CA and fla loaded down with redundant gear) but who cares!!!!
Re: Sad News
Posted by Diver gal on 10/18/2011, 1:17 pm, in reply to "Sad News"
I was on another dive boat in the same area and heard everything unfold over the radio, from the first relayed call for assistance until Amy was transferred to a CG boat 1.5 hours later. Weather was too rough to be out so far, much rougher than expected, and Amy apparently surfaced without her gear and unconscious. That makes 3 times this year I've been out on that ledge when a diver died - those stats are just too high. Every boat that goes to that ledge has problems with divers - 2 weeks ago we were given a stern lecture by the captain, and on the first dive one diver ran out of air and surfaced, passing 3 others and not asking to share air. He ended up on 02 and seemed to be OK. 3 others did not complete safety stops, and still others race up the line, even on the 2nd dive. It is a dangerous ledge even for advanced divers, and a lot can go wrong at that depth, plus help is a long way off. I was also struck by a rather cavalier attitude among divers on my boat - basically a denial that bad things happen to good divers. My own 0 ring burst in 0 vis dive 2 months ago, and I only made it to the surface through sheer luck. I can't help but think that if something like that happened on fossil ledge I would never make it to the surface, or would be seriously bent or injured if I did manage to get up. Dive boat instant buddies are not dependable, either, and I've had buddies swim off on that ledge without a glance behind at least 3 times on that ledge (and also had some really great buddies). This is far too close for comfort and I am rethinking my priorities.
Re: Sad News
Posted by hbbh on 10/24/2011, 1:40 pm, in reply to "Re: Sad News"
As I re-read the Diver Gal's comments again, I itch to add another comment. If I witnessed all those diving indidences you described on your dive there, or anywhere else, I would drop off each one at the dock, take away their certifications and not allow them to ever come back. It shows that not only did they put their own lives at risk, but also of others, and the crew. They ought to go back to the "pool" and learn how to dive again, or simply stay on the porch...
Listen, you should not dive any more, obviously you dont know much....
Posted by bartman on 10/18/2011, 10:45 pm, in reply to "Re: Sad News" Moonsnail Master
I will tell you one thing, I don’t want to dive with you - it sounds like you do hardly any diving, took the resort course and don’t like to carry a pony tank or a wreck reel - in other words your not prepared to be doing that type of diving -
you sound like the individuals that want to dive the Algol with a single 80 aluminum tank, no pony or reel, cant read their computer correctly and not enough weight. When asked why no pony they say " well I don’t have to go to the bottom, I can stay up high", well what happens Einstein it you get blown off the top.... you get the silent dumb look.. Why? Because they are not prepared...
And you were out 3 times this year? And saw 3 divers die? And you keep coming back for more - I suspect your whole story is nothing but fabrication.....The real question is why you wrote this? Why don’t you let us know all the real details - If you are for real, do all of us a favor and go play in a quarry, oh wait people die there to, so its not safe and to deep, better yet, stop diving because I don’t want to have to fish your ignorant ass out of the water someday..
That is all The Bartman-mosb
Re: Listen, you should not dive any more, obviously you dont know much....
Bart - just for S&G's : whats wrong with diving the Algol with an 80? An 80 alum is all I use and have ever used (aside from a few 72 steels) in my 30+yrs of diving. Never once got bent at depth, never had any assent problems, never blown off a wreck or pushed by current.. and dont have back problems from lugging heavy tanks. LOL
Re: Listen, you should not dive any more, obviously you dont know much....
I knew the lady that died and liked her a whole bunch
There are many people from NC that don’t like the fact that divers take the teeth from 40 miles out and use her and her husband’s boat to get to that area
When i read this persons comments, it just burns me that at the time of this accident, they had to jump in and state “It is a dangerous ledge even for advanced divers, and a lot can go wrong at that depth, plus help is a long way off” “My own 0 ring burst in 0 vis dive 2 months ago, and I only made it to the surface through sheer luck.” “This is far too close for comfort and I am rethinking my priorities.” And the best “That makes 3 times this year I've been out on that ledge when a diver died - those stats are just too high” - So whats their point? People should not be allowed to dive that ledge any longer because it is too dangerous, or people should not be allowed to dive that ledge and take any fossils. Give me a break, this person does not want people diving there and taking stuff off the bottom, at 40 miles out… because they think its theirs…
I have dove that "dangerous ledge" and it is very similar to diving the Resor except the vis was better, and the water was warmer and its shallower. It is flat, with no relief except for a few coral heads. And its not more dangerous to dive there than any other place in the ocean as far as I am concerned
As for diving the Algol, if you are planning on diving the top of the superstructure at 75 feet, surrounded by decking at 110 feet and then the bottom at 125 or so, maybe common sense should kick in and say I should have a plan for in case something happens and I am not at the 75 foot mark, but much deeper.
I have dove most of the shark river reef wrecks on 80s when I first started but I always had a plan and went prepared and never relied on anyone for my safety. There are those that don’t plan, don’t think ahead, don’t understand their computers and rely on their buddies and bad things happen. Does that make the algol to dangerous to dive? I say No, it’s the unprepared diver that makes it to dangerous.
“This is far too close for comfort and I am rethinking my priorities” – I say Good, don’t dive it anymore, But don’t try and influence me with your dumb opinion. I have dove it and I think it is not that hard to do, in fact I think its easy to dive it and a lot of fun to boot. And guess what, I don’t want to dive with anyone who is “rethinking their priorities” and “lot can go wrong at that depth, plus help is a long way off" Does anyone else want to dive with a person thinking this? Please speak up?
I say - If you only want to dive 75 feet, how about diving a wreck that sits on the bottom in 75 feet of water? Or If you only want to do non decompression diving plan to do it, not stay to long and run out of air, or better yet not know how your computer works? I don’t know, maybe I am just crazy…
Here is another flash - When someone I know, like, and respect dies and you post crap like this person did, I am going to tell them what I think of them… and it is to bad if some of you don’t like it…
I remain the bartman-mosb
oh and Brian, that lobster your were chasing was not huge lolololol
that is all
Re: Listen, you should not dive any more, obviously you dont know much....
Hmmm...let's see. I've logged over 100 dives this past year, and in that time alone dived in 4 different countries and 6 States. I carry both a good wreck reel (a Manta, not the finger reel some divers use on those ledges) and a 30 pony. I also know the difference between "your" and "you're". I missed the 'resort course' you must have enjoyed, and did most of my certifications with cave divers having several thousand hours of dive time. I've never dived the Algol but can tell you that there is no 'top' on fossil ledge, and any diver who doesn't ascend and descend on the line is a fool, as the top current can be very stiff. There is no way to keep a bearing on fossil ledge as there are no landmarks, only sort of underwater platforms (3-10 ft high or so). I've seen at least 3 divers this year have to be rescued after going out too far on their reels and not making it back to the anchor line before having to begin their ascent. What "real details" do you want to know?
Re: Listen, you should not dive any more, obviously you dont know much....
Now that is going to ruin my day. The thought of Kenny running around with a saddle and bit in his mouth....is just not right. Not that he wouldn't mind it .....it's just a very disturbing image that may take a very long time to get out of my head........If I haven't already said this........THANKS PAL!!!!!!!! no LOLOLOL for me
Re: Sad News
Posted by Brian K on 10/18/2011, 2:09 pm, in reply to "Re: Sad News"
I've been diving that ledge for the last 4 years. I agree that the ledges are an advanced dive...and then some. I tell people that it is not your normal 110' dive because everything is on the very bottom and there is little in the way of reference point. Add in the fact that once people start digging with their scooters, the vis drastically drops to near zero.
Diving on the ledges, I have seen my fair share of divers with "tooth fever", who do not pay attention to where they are going or their gauges. Still others who put "getting just one more tooth" above the value of their own life. I mean seriously, is it worth dying over a tooth?
Other than those I see diving from up here in NJ with doubles and/or pony bottles, I see very few divers using any kind of redundant air sources on the boats down there.
Admittedly, I lost sight of the anchor line while diving the ledges earlier this year. I was hanging around the anchor line at the end of my dive and went around a "coral head" and spotted a huge lobster. It took off and I was right behind it. Unfortunately, I went a little too far and once I realized I could not see the anchor line anymore, I stopped the pursuit and then switched into contingency mode. I resorted to my training and began to look around for the anchor line. Not finding it, I stayed calm and tied off my upline and floated my lift bag to the surface. Once I made it to the surface, I realized I had actually surfaced about 30' from where the original tie-in was and then swam back to the boat. The only injury incurred was to my pride when several "friends" repeatedly pointed it out that I couldnt find the anchor line.
Re: Sad News
Posted by John on 10/24/2011, 10:49 am, in reply to "Re: Sad News"
Nice post Brian. Everyone f's up sooner or later diving, and/or murphy's law throws a monkey wrench in there. That is where redundancy, experience, redundancy and staying calm really pay off.
JPB
Re: Sad News
Posted by GS on 10/19/2011, 9:17 am, in reply to "Re: Sad News"
Actually the only injury was when I twisted my back helping you retrieve your lift bag !
But I have to agree with you on it not being a normal 105-115' dive.You're at that depth the entire dive - there's no high parts like a wreck.
It's real easy to be 200'+ out on your reel looking for teeth(unless you're "Eagle-Eye" Harry) and then realizing that you're low on gas and you racked up a bunch of deco also.
I have to say the Jersey divers come better equipped for the dive than others.
Re: Sad News
Posted by Brian K on 10/19/2011, 12:47 pm, in reply to "Re: Sad News"
Sorry Gary, I forgot about your back
Re: Sad News
Posted by Brian K on 10/17/2011, 5:32 pm, in reply to "Sad News"
Very sad news indeed.
I have known Amy and Johnny for over 12 years and they always treated me like I was family. My prayers go out to Johnny and the kids.
Re: Sad News
Posted by Captain Jim on 10/17/2011, 5:32 pm, in reply to "Sad News"
Sad indeed. She was one of the good people in this business. Not that I knew her well since only had a few opportunities to talk, a few times in her shop or at BTS, but I remember them all.DSAO,
Captain Jim Wilson
Re: Sad News
Posted by hbbh on 10/23/2011, 7:43 pm, in reply to "Re: Sad News"
NJ diving and shark teeth hunts out of Carolina Beach in NC are equally challenging and do not compare to Florida dives. And that leads me to the question of will we know why Amy perished? What we do know is that she was spotted heading towards an anchor line, without any signs of distress. What happened after that it's not known. Any speculations are inappropriate. Her dive equipment was secured for coast guard's investigation and not until that review is completed, no conclusions of any sort should be drawn. I have known Amy for a long time, I dive the ledges,I dive in NJ, my info comes from a direct source on that day. Let's wait for more facts and hope there is an answer and a lesson for us to learn from this unfortunate accident.
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on 10/17/2011, 3:43 pm
