Hardy Palm and Subtropical Board

Hardy Palm and Subtropical Board
[ Hardy Palm and Subtropical Board ]

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Trachy variety not looking particularly good

Posted by Ken-Charlotte <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Ken-Charlotte' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 10/27/2019, 10:09 pm

I bought this palm a number of years ago - like 20. At the time, it was labeled as “Trachy Takil”, but I believe most knowledgeable folks say it more accurately is a Trachy Nainatal (sp?). Take a look at it today:

The new, emerging growth looks good growing up from the trunk, but the other, older fronds generally grow downward then quickly turn yellow, then brown. In other words, the Palm does not seem to sustain horizontal fronds to form a rounded crown. Fronds are either pointing up, or down.

I don’t believe that this Palm is exposed to particularly strong winds (none of my T. Fortunes on my property have this odd growth habit).

Any insight, advice or suggestions? Thanks!

Re: Trachy variety not looking particularly good

Posted by WSimpson NC <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=WSimpson+NC' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 10/27/2019, 10:25 pm, in reply to "Trachy variety not looking particularly good"

My Nainital has a relatively fat trunk , and is bigger and more vigorous in most ways than my Fortuneis . Your palm does look like a lot of Takils I've seen on the internet . Try watering and fertilizing in the warm season . Maybe that will produce a more full look .
Also try some epsom salts for the yellowing . It may need some magnesium . I think they are different and cool looking .

" Magnesium sulfate, also known as Epsom salt, can help prevent magnesium deficiency in palms. ... Regular applications of Epsom salt and palm fertilizer will provide the nutrients that palm trees need to produce healthy, green fronds, but it may take up to two years for the new growth to replace the older fronds."

Hope this helps ,
Will

My Nainital :
.

Winston-Salem
Ten year lows: 12F 15F 19F 20F 5F 4F 15F 7F 8F (14F 2019)
10 Year Average Winter Lowest Low 11.9F ; 30 Year 11.7F
Profession:Trachy Defiberer and Palm Spear Puller (free estimates)

Picture of a Takil from the internet :

Posted by WSimpson NC <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=WSimpson+NC' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 10/27/2019, 11:04 pm, in reply to "Re: Trachy variety not looking particularly good"

I think the growth habit is similar to your palm . Maybe some magnesium might help with some of the yellowing on your palm .
I like the look .
Will

Winston-Salem
Ten year lows: 12F 15F 19F 20F 5F 4F 15F 7F 8F (14F 2019)
10 Year Average Winter Lowest Low 11.9F ; 30 Year 11.7F
Profession:Trachy Defiberer and Palm Spear Puller (free estimates)

Re: Trachy variety not looking particularly good

Posted by Steve in N Alabama z7b <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Steve+in+N+Alabama+z7b' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 10/27/2019, 11:55 pm, in reply to "Trachy variety not looking particularly good"

It looks like Trachycarpus takil. I don't see the long ribbon-like ligules commonly found on T. 'Nainital'. What fertilizer are you using?

Re: Trachy variety not looking particularly good

Posted by Jim in Iowa <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Jim+in+Iowa' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 10/28/2019, 7:07 am, in reply to "Trachy variety not looking particularly good"

You would need to get a close up of the legules to be sure its Takil

Re: Trachy variety not looking particularly good

Posted by Ken-Charlotte <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Ken-Charlotte' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 10/28/2019, 11:19 am, in reply to "Re: Trachy variety not looking particularly good"

OK, fellas. Here are 2 close-up photos:

host picture online

What do you think??

This palm was provided by Gerry’s Neotropical Nursery some 20 years ago.

I fertilize it in mid-April and again in mid-July with Lutz’s Palm Maintenance Spikes. Have not used Epsom Salts to date.

Re: Trachy variety not looking particularly good

Posted by Steve in N Alabama z7b <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Steve+in+N+Alabama+z7b' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 10/28/2019, 4:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Trachy variety not looking particularly good"

I can see the ligules now and the fibers are too long for T. takil. I've seen numerous posts from folks needing fertilizer advice after using those fertilizer spikes on their palms. Have you ever given it calcium?

Re: Trachy variety not looking particularly good

Posted by Ken-Charlotte <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Ken-Charlotte' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 10/28/2019, 10:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Trachy variety not looking particularly good"

Thanks, Steve.

I have no knowledge of calcium applications for palms, nor how to administer it. I welcome any suggestions.

I have applying the Lutz Maintenance spikes for 15 years. I think they have served my 20+ palms well, but I have nothing to compare it to (somewhat akin to taking CBD oil following my Rotator Cuff surgery; people would ask, “Did it give you relief?”...and I would reply, “I have no way of knowing”.)

Re: Trachy variety not looking particularly good

Posted by Ken-Charlotte <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Ken-Charlotte' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 10/28/2019, 10:28 pm, in reply to "Re: Trachy variety not looking particularly good"

Steve:

Thanks for your opinion that this Palm is not a T. Takil.

Do you have any sense of what variety it may in fact be?

Re: Trachy variety not looking particularly good

Posted by Steve in N Alabama z7b <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Steve+in+N+Alabama+z7b' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 10/29/2019, 12:10 am, in reply to "Re: Trachy variety not looking particularly good"

Has it always held a minimal number of leaves or has it been holding up fewer leaves recently?
Phytophthora which is present in all soils in the Southeast can cause stem weakness. It thrives in moist, acid soils and hates free calcium and alkaline soil.

Re: Trachy variety not looking particularly good

Posted by Steve in N Alabama z7b <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Steve+in+N+Alabama+z7b' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 10/29/2019, 12:16 am, in reply to "Re: Trachy variety not looking particularly good"

The long ligules indicates T. fortunei genes. It could be the Nainital, India variety or seeds may have been collected from the hybrid population between Nainital and where true T. Takil grows.

Re: Trachy variety not looking particularly good

Posted by Ryan Monroe LA <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Ryan+Monroe+LA' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 10/29/2019, 5:40 pm, in reply to "Trachy variety not looking particularly good"

Many trachycarpus in my area tend to look like that. My theory is that this area gets a bit hotter than they typically thrive and look good. Combine that with light soils and the nematodes that come with them and the heat tolerance is lessened even more.

My theory is that cultivar is just a bit less heat tolerant than your other Trachycarpus. I don’t have any nanital or takil cultivars in my yard to give additional insight, but my Wagneranus suffer from the same affliction shown in your pictures

Fertilizer will not help and I have experiment with a wide range of nutrient types.

T. Takil

Posted by AlexW in Atlanta <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=AlexW+in+Atlanta' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 10/29/2019, 10:59 pm, in reply to "Trachy variety not looking particularly good"

I agree with a number of the others that this tree looks like a true Trachycarpus Takil. The length of the ligules would be diagnostic (the Takil having much shorter ligules than the Fortunei). What I notice on this specimen that is Takil like is:

1. Fronds have more leaflets than typical T. Fortunei.
2. Fronds are larger in diameter than typical T. Fortunei.
3. The "split level" upper fronds pointing sharply upwards and the lower fronds pointing down is common in T. Takil.

Very interesting!

Alex W.
(Atlanta GA z 7b/8a)

Alex Woollcott
Milton GA (just north of Atlanta) -- Zone 7b
Interests: cold hardy citrus, palms, tropical-esq landscaping,
whitewater paddling, tennis, squash, golf

Re: Trachy variety not looking particularly good

Posted by AlexW in Atlanta <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=AlexW+in+Atlanta' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 10/29/2019, 11:02 pm, in reply to "Re: Trachy variety not looking particularly good"

I'll change my assessment that this is Takil. The ligules are too long. Takil has a very clean appearance.

Alex Woollcott
Milton GA (just north of Atlanta) -- Zone 7b
Interests: cold hardy citrus, palms, tropical-esq landscaping,
whitewater paddling, tennis, squash, golf

Re: T. Takil

Thanks, Alex.

I always considered you to be a primo Palm expert in the Southeastern Palm Society and on this message board.

Haven’t seen your name in a long time.

Cheers!

Re: Trachy variety not looking particularly good

Posted by Ken-Charlotte <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Ken-Charlotte' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 10/29/2019, 11:16 pm, in reply to "Re: Trachy variety not looking particularly good"

Makes good sense to me, Ryan. Thanks.

Re: Trachy variety not looking particularly good

Posted by Tommy Nashville-Miami <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Tommy+Nashville-Miami' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 11/2/2019, 2:52 pm, in reply to "Trachy variety not looking particularly good"

I actually really like the look of it.

"Oh, Dixie Land, I hope you understand
When I miss my Tennessee Home
And I've been away way too long
I can't see this world unless I go
Outside my Southern Comfort Zone"- Brad Paisley

Some old true T. takil photos of mine:

Posted by RobG7aChattTN <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=RobG7aChattTN' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 1/6/2020, 12:10 pm, in reply to "Trachy variety not looking particularly good"

Yeah, this one isn't takil despite the similarity with the frond drop. I'm never on this old laptop but I broke it out to see if I could get on here to do a join request for someone and it just so happens that I've got all my old T. takil photos from Golden Gate Palms from out in the bay area (where the Ruth Bancroft Gardens, Atlanta Botanical Garden and Plant Delights specimens came from). My little palms have grown very slowly except for one that I'm guessing is a hybrid that grew like crazy and doesn't share all the true takil traits. I lost a few to cold (but that cold also killed off all the similar sized fortunei with -4F and -2F).

OK...sorry...I couldn't get it to work. I haven't been on here since back when I put photos on Photobucket to link them to here. Anyhow, ligules in takil are very short compared to fortunei...like an inch instead of 8-12 inches and the trunks are not fuzzy at all and instead the fibers are very tight almost like they are pasted to the trunk. frond segments are evenly divided all the way to the hastula on mature palms and not irregular like on fortunei.

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