Hardy Palm and Subtropical Board

Hardy Palm and Subtropical Board
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Palmetto vs. birmingham hardiness

Posted by Ben OK <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Ben+OK' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/22/2019, 11:23 pm

I thought this was a pretty good testament to the difference in hardiness between sabal palmetto and birmingham sabals. I don't think we got below 10F to 12F at my house this winter, though we did have a spell or two where we went between 2 to 3 days without getting above freezing. We had a few small snow events, none more than about 1.5" at a time. The birmingham is in the SW corner of an L-shaped bed on the south and west sides of my garage. Both are shielded from north winds by the house.
Here is the difference between the two at my house given the above winter conditions:

Birmingham

And about 5 feet away, in a more protected spot, here is the palmetto.

Still alive and pushing a new spear.

That palmetto is sheltered by the garage on the east, the house on the north, and is almost completely covered overhead. The birmingham performed pretty admirably, I'd say.

As a side note this birmingham was sprouted from the very last seed batch from John's notorious Tulsa birmingham. Of the seed he gave me (several years after his died), it was the only one I got to sprout.

Kano ako, Pinoy kayo?

Re: Palmetto vs. birmingham hardiness

Posted by TomPAz6A <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=TomPAz6A' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/23/2019, 8:46 am, in reply to "Palmetto vs. birmingham hardiness"

That clearly shows the difference. I have a palmetto here and with or without protection it has browned out each year but has recovered so far.

Re: Palmetto vs. birmingham hardiness

Posted by WSimpson NC <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=WSimpson+NC' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/23/2019, 11:47 am, in reply to "Palmetto vs. birmingham hardiness"

I lost my 2 Palmettos during the winter before last's 9 day period below 32F . Even though the low was 8F they couldn't handle being below 32F that long .
My Birminghams had some damage but grew out of it fine .
Definitely hardier than Sabal palmetto .
Good luck ,
Will

Winston-Salem
Ten year lows: 20F 5F 4F 15F 7F 8F 14F 19F 16F 16F(2022)
10 Year Average Winter Lowest Low 12.4F ; 30 Year 12.3F
Profession:Trachy Defiberer and Palm Spear Puller (free estimates)

Re: Palmetto vs. birmingham hardiness

Posted by Ben OK <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Ben+OK' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/23/2019, 3:12 pm, in reply to "Re: Palmetto vs. birmingham hardiness"

I had mixed up some of my sabal seedlings, so I didn't know for sure if that palmetto was a actually a palmetto or a sabal minor. I put it in that protected spot though since I thought it might be less Hardy. Still wasn't enough to keep it from burning pretty bad.

Kano ako, Pinoy kayo?

Re: Palmetto vs. birmingham hardiness

Posted by Ben OK <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Ben+OK' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/23/2019, 3:15 pm, in reply to "Re: Palmetto vs. birmingham hardiness"

Given their native range, I guess it makes sense that palmettos can't take the long duration cold events well. That only makes me more curious about what makes a Birmingham handle those conditions so much better.

Kano ako, Pinoy kayo?

Re: Palmetto vs. birmingham hardiness

Posted by Lucas West Arkansas <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Lucas+West+Arkansas' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/23/2019, 6:20 pm, in reply to "Palmetto vs. birmingham hardiness"

Thanks for the post Ben. I just purchased two S.Birminghams "3 gal" from Steve in north Alabama. One for my house and one for my sisters house pool area. They should do well here I hope.
By the way. I hope the palms in Coweta are doing ok. Have you been by there lately?

Re: Palmetto vs. birmingham hardiness

Posted by Tommy Nashville-Miami <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Tommy+Nashville-Miami' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/23/2019, 10:37 pm, in reply to "Palmetto vs. birmingham hardiness"

Great report. This is kind of odd but I have the exact opposite results here. I've purchased 2 small Birminghams that unfortunately were planted during vortex winters. They always looked really rough by spring. Palmettos, on the other hand, have completely shocked me. My biggest one grew fronds during this entire winter. Because I don't buy them hurricane cut, I've had small palmettos field-dug and then planted. They lose all their fronds, as expected, even during the summer. Then, they recover. I had to transplant one twice because the friend I gave it to thought it was dead. Then I planted it at my father's. It covered the mailbox when it grew out so they wanted me to take it. I transplanted it Again over here. I'll have to post a picture of my biggest palmetto in the daylight.

In my opinion, I think I just have a very hardy palmetto source. I would say I had a very weak Birmingham source but I assume they are all coming from that mother tree that lived in Birmingham.

"Oh, Dixie Land, I hope you understand
When I miss my Tennessee Home
And I've been away way too long
I can't see this world unless I go
Outside my Southern Comfort Zone"- Brad Paisley

Re: Palmetto vs. birmingham hardiness

Posted by WSimpson NC <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=WSimpson+NC' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/24/2019, 1:18 pm, in reply to "Re: Palmetto vs. birmingham hardiness"

Birminghams are slower growers than Palmettos which like Minors seem to make for a hardier palm . Minors have that underground truck that helps too .
Just a thought .
Will

Winston-Salem
Ten year lows: 20F 5F 4F 15F 7F 8F 14F 19F 16F 16F(2022)
10 Year Average Winter Lowest Low 12.4F ; 30 Year 12.3F
Profession:Trachy Defiberer and Palm Spear Puller (free estimates)

Re: Palmetto vs. birmingham hardiness

Posted by Jim Wilmington DE 7a <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Jim+Wilmington+DE+7a' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/24/2019, 6:26 pm, in reply to "Palmetto vs. birmingham hardiness"

I must post pics of my Birmingham and regular Palmetto!

Harder winter here. Three days where the high was 19F. Winter low was 5F, but there were two additional nights of 6F and a 9F.

Be that as it may, my Birmingham took slight-to-moderate damage, mostly to older fronds. It really looks good, so far.

My Palmetto took maybe a little more damage than the Birmingham, but if there's a difference, it's negligible at this stage.

Considering the cold, I'm happy with the performance of both palms. Both are 12 years in-ground. Neither has a trunk yet. (They grow like snails on downers.) But hey? They're green! And they're Sabals, for heaven's sake, a stone's throw from Philadelphia.

Jim, Wilmington, DE, 7a
Last 30 Years Avg. Winter Low: 7.50F
Last 20 Years Avg. Winter Low: 8.35F
Last 10 Years Avg. Winter Low: 8.40F
Favorite Palms: Species: Phoenix Canariensis / Genus: Sabal

Re: Palmetto vs. birmingham hardiness

Posted by Ben OK <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Ben+OK' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/25/2019, 12:29 am, in reply to "Re: Palmetto vs. birmingham hardiness"

I'd love see pics of your palms when you get a chance Jim. By the sound of your description of this winter, I'd definitely say both of those sabals fared very well.

Kano ako, Pinoy kayo?

Re: Palmetto vs. birmingham hardiness

Posted by Ben OK <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Ben+OK' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/25/2019, 12:33 am, in reply to "Re: Palmetto vs. birmingham hardiness"

That's interesting that palmettos have been so hardy for you. I've seen them do well in Oklahoma before, so maybe it is my source. This is one I sprouted from seed that I collected in Gulf Shores a few years back. So it was probably just another transplanted palmetto from somewhere in Florida.

Kano ako, Pinoy kayo?

Re: Palmetto vs. birmingham hardiness

Posted by Ben OK <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=Ben+OK' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/25/2019, 12:38 am, in reply to "Re: Palmetto vs. birmingham hardiness"

Thanks Lucas. I'm sure the birminghams you bought from Steve will do great for you. Anything that grows up here will do just a little better down in your neck of the woods. The Ft Smith area really is a little warm spot in this region.

I haven't driven through Coweta yet this spring. I'll take some pics the next time I drive that way though.

Kano ako, Pinoy kayo?

My largest Birmingham :

Posted by WSimpson NC <iframe src='https://members3.boardhost.com/HardyPalm/info/user=WSimpson+NC' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 3/25/2019, 6:12 pm, in reply to "Palmetto vs. birmingham hardiness"

Trunk :

.

The damaged fronds were from the winter before last . Last seasons' fronds are the green ones . With some new fronds this season and some of the older uglier fronds dying off it should look good after this season .

.

Will

Winston-Salem
Ten year lows: 20F 5F 4F 15F 7F 8F 14F 19F 16F 16F(2022)
10 Year Average Winter Lowest Low 12.4F ; 30 Year 12.3F
Profession:Trachy Defiberer and Palm Spear Puller (free estimates)

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