>The 'You can't grow that' to me is like the antipathy of what these boards are about. That's what killed national boards like this when people from other areas told colder climate people what they cant do.<

As a young boy, I was fascinated by climate and the way it limits what we can grow. As a teen, I began reading serious literature on plants and trees. In one plant guide, I saw a photo of a mature Trachycarpus growing in Scotland. While not knowing a lot of specifics about climate at the time, I thought, "If they can grow palm trees in Scotland, I ought to be able to grow them in southeast Pennsylvania." I underestimated the profound moderating effect of the Gulf Stream on UK winters. In time, I learned all this stuff. I learned, through trial and error that it was possible to grow a couple of species of palms (and other subtropical and Mediterranean plants) in the Philly metro area -- especially if plant-friendly micro-climates could be found or created. A good micro-climate is worth half a zone.

I'm babbling.