: You may not like
: the official Spanish reaction, but the
: Constitution supports the maintenance of a
: unified Spain. How the unification is
: maintained may not always be pleasant, or
: strike secessionists as just, but the law is
: on the side of Rajoy.
: Seriously, do you know any constitution that
: allows a secession of a region, state or
: province ?
: There's a process of constitutional
: amendments that can be enacted to permit
: referenda on the issue of independence.
: Spain, naturally, is unwilling to go down
: that route.
: So what is your solution ?
: Catalonia is condemned to remain part of
: Spain until Madrid decides to think
: otherwise in ... 50 or 100 years ?
: Until they can come to a Constitutional
: arrangement whereby a legal referendum is
: permitted and takes place in a free and fair
Well, when a country seeks for independence or more autonomy, it hardly gets it on basis of a negotiation.
If the american independists were waiting for a negotiation, today you might have a ... british passport and be a british colon in Texas .
: Besides, more than 50% of eligible Catalan
: voters don't consider themselves
: "condemned to remain part of
: Spain." The separatists have yet to
: even gain a simple majority of 50% + 1 of
: the electorate's support.
I know that more than 50% of catalan voters are against the independence.
But are you sure how many of the catalan voters are true catalans ?
In the 50s and 60s, when Catalonia had its great economic boom, people from all Spain, mainly from the poorer regions of Galicia, Extremadura and Andaluzia, moved to Catalonia and established there.
Are those "foreigners" and "expats" that will have the right to tell the catalans how they would live ?
Are there any serious census or polls showing the true number of "native" catalans and there sense of vote ?
If galicians, extremeños and andaluzian do not feel comfortable living in an independent Catalonia, too bad for them.
Either they adjust or move "home" to where they came from.
I would not want a foreigner to dictate orders in my own house or my country.
I feel that EU already intrudes too much in the lives of european countries bearing in mind that the EU is not a federation of states.
I guess many american states have more autonomy than most european countries... who are not Germany or France and their closest satellites
: Few secessions were peaceful.
: The Czech Republik and Slovakia come to mind
: as a honourable exception.
: Of course all constitutions maintain the
: unity of the country, which doesn't mean
: that a region, state or province may not
: aspire to its independence or in a lesse
: grade, more autonomy.
: But if the central state remains closed in
: its ivory tower surrounded by the
: constitution, dialogue may proove a bit
: Dialogue hasn't been a talking point for
: separatists for a while now. If it had been,
: then greater strides would have been made
: towards permitting a legal referendum,
: rather than declaring unilaterally that one
: would occur, knowing for a fact that it was
: in violation of the constitution.
: What Catalonia did these days, Portugal did
: the same in 1640 - I guess whe have a debt
: of gratitude towards Catalonia .
: When Catalonia rebelled against Madrid,
: Olivares send all troops staying in Portugal
: to fight the secessionists and it was easier
: for us to proclaim the independence.
: Times have changed. The role of the
: nation-state has changed. Despite the wishes
: of some of my fellow Texans that we secede
: from the US and re-establish the Republic of
: Texas, I and every other Texan who is able
: to separate my love for my state from my
: knowledge of constitutional law recognize
: that we're Americans and we're always going
: to be Americans.
: Of course, at the time, there was no
: constitution nor any famous article 155 that
: Madrid could invoke.
: But Portugal and Spain were at war (not very
: serious - a couple of battles every odd
: year) for 28 long years.
: Hope the declaration of independence will
: not produce such result.
: Doubtful, given that the separatists can't
: command a majority in their own would-be
: nation-state. It's hard to declare
: independence when less than 50 percent of
: your voting-eligible potential citizenry
: want to be independent.
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