--Previous Message--
: Any news on when and where Prince Dimitri will
: be buried.
:
: --Previous Message--
: Thanks for this clarification.
: well, the Guardian title was maybe a bit
: premature, but in the end Wladimir was
: right.
: The title prince or Grandduke... but
: Wladimir became the son of the emperor in
: exile and therefore entitled to be a
: grandduke ....
:
: Grand dukes were indeed forbidden to marry
: unequally. Princes of Russia could ask for
: permission to do so, but there offspring
: would never be entitled to succession
: rights, even if the marriage was approved.
:
:
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: Vsevolode did consider Kyrill and Wladimir
: to
: be head of the house and asked for titles
: for his wives from them. When the three
: princes decided to issue the joint
: declaration protesting against the decision
: to declare Maria Guardian of the Throne,
: Roman insisted that the rule which made the
: great-grandchildren of an Emperor merely
: Prince, rather than grand duke, should apply
: to Wladimir. What upset them all was the
: presumption of Maria's succession and that
: they would necessarily pre-decease Wladimir.
: After all, Vsevolode was only 3 1/2 years
: younger than him and Roman was 20 years
: older but Andrew's younger brother Vassili
: was only ten years older. While Vsevolde
: died young, aged just fifty-nine, Vassili
: died less than three years before Wladimir.
: Had he survived, then under the Russian
: rules of succession he would have become de
: jure Emperor and, at his death, the nearest
: dynastic female is Princess Elisabeth of
: Schlesvig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg
: (daughter of Duchess Anastasia of
: Mecklemburg-Schwerin, daughter of Grand Duke
: Franz Ferdinand IV of Mecklemburg-Schwerin,
: the son of Grand Duchess Anastasia
: Alexandrovna of Russia, the oldest sister of
: Grand Duke Alexander Alexandrovich, Prince
: Vassili's father. Vassili's mother was Grand
: Duchess Xenia, sister of Emperor Nicholas
: II). She was married to the late Prince
: Ferdinand-Heinrich of Isenburg-Budingen but
: her sons are married to commoners so would
: not be eligible for the Russian succession.
: After Princess Elisabeth, therefore, one
: must return to the descendants of Grand
: Duchess Anastasia, to her youngest daughter
: Cecile, who married Crown Prince Wilhelm of
: Prussia, and thence to the present head of
: the Royal House of Prussia (Grand Duke
: George's father is also a Prince of Prussia,
: the future of the Romanov dynasty therefore
: being a Hohenzollern, arguably the family
: that did most to bring about the end of the
: Romanov-Holstein-Gottorp dynasty). This is a
: rather convoluted succession - if Vsevolode
: had survived Wladimir, the heir would be
: King Constantine II. In 1924, Grand Duke
: Alexander and his sons Andrew, Feodor,
: Nikita, Dimitri and Rostislav all recognised
: Kyrill as head of the house in a signed
: document - Prince Vassili, only 17 years old
: at the time, was still a minor.
:
: It is also worth pointing out that in an
: interview with Point de Vue following the
: death of Grand Duke Wladimir, Nicholas
: Romanoff stated that the succession of Grand
: Duke Kyrill as head of the imperial house
: was "incontestable". This was the
: occasion that he claimed, that in April 1992
: (i.e. with the death of Grand Duke Wladimir)
: he becamse "head of the house".
: This was implicit recognition that Wladimir
: was indeed the head of the house, but denied
: his father's clearly expressed statement
: that Nicholas and his brother were incapable
: of succeeding.
:
: There is a further important point: the laws
: of the House, as modified in 1911, provided
: (a) that Grand Dukes could not contract
: legal marriages that were unequal so such
: marriages would be null and void, and (b)
: Princes of Russia could only contract
: unequal marriages after renouncing their
: rights and obtaining the permission of the
: Emperor. Following the revolution, the
: marriages of members of the imperial family
: were all conducted according to laws of
: foreign states and were therefore incapable
: of being nullified merely because they did
: not renounce or obtain the permission of the
: de jure Emperor. Nonetheless, it should be
: considered that had the dynasty continued to
: reign and these princes had married
: unequally without permission, they would not
: have been capable of succeeding to the
: throne.
:
: As it happened, Wladimir did survive all the
: other male dynasts, so the succession
: unquestionably passed to Grand Duchess
: Maria. Now the question remains whether the
: house laws will be changed, should Grand
: Duke George express a desire to marry
: someone not from a reigning or formerly
: reigning family.
:
: Vsevolode, by the way, was also one of the
: signatories of this important declaration,
: of 11/24 October 1938 which stated in its
: entirety:
:
: "We, members of the Imperial House of
: Russia, having assembled after the death of
: the Head of our House, the Grand Duke Kirill
: Wladimirovich, consider it our most sacred
: duty solemnly to declare that the rights of
: each of the members of the Imperial House of
: Russia are exactly determined by the
: Fundamental Laws of the Russian Empire and
: the Statute of the Imperial Family, that
: they are known perfectly to all, and that we
: must observe them religiously, by virtue of
: a special oath, which is why the question of
: the order of succession to the throne has
: never caused the slightest doubt among us
: and still less a disagreement of any kind.
: We reject any departure from the order
: provided by the law, because that would be
: an offense against the intangibility of our
: laws and of our family traditions.
:
: "By virtue of the laws indicated
: above, we recognize that the succession to
: the throne belongs by right, in order of
: primogeniture, to the senior member of the
: Imperial House of Russia, the Grand Duke
: Wladimir Kirillovich, which he assumed by
: inheritance after the death of his father on
: 29 September/12 October 1938, with a
: profound awareness of the sacred duty which
: devolves upon him according to law as Head
: of the Imperial House of Russia, bestowing
: upon him all the rights and duties belonging
: to him by virtue of the Fundamental Laws of
: the Russian Empire and the Statute of the
: Imperial Family.
:
: "The members of the Imperial House of
: Russia appear as follows by primogeniture in
: the order of succession: Grand Duke Boris
: Wladimirovich, Grand Duke Andrew
: Wladimirovich , Grand Duke Dmitry Pavlovich
: , Prince Vsevolod Ioannovich, Prince Gavriel
: Constantinovich, Prince George
: Constantinovich, Prince Roman Petrovich ,
: Prince Andrew Alexandrovich , Prince Feodor
: Alexandrovich , Prince Nikita Alexandrovich
: , Prince Dmitry Alexandrovich, Prince
: Rostislav Alexandrovich, and Prince Vassily
: Alexandrovich.
:
:
:
: --Previous Message--
:
: Interesting the position of Roman towards
: this sons' position.
:
: But why did Prince Vsvolde did not regard
: Wladimir head of the Imperial House? DId he
: not even recognise Cyril? Wladimir was born
: a prince, but when his father became Emperor
: in Exile he was made Grandduke... Totally in
: line with the house rules.
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: Prince Roman Petrovich made it absolutely
: clear in the statement he issued in 1969
: conjointly with Prince Vsevolode Ivanovich
: and Prince Andrei Alexandrovich that he did
: not consider hison capable of being
: considered dynasts. {rice Vsevolode, who was
: a friend of my parents and with whom I
: discussed this (and he gave me a copy of
: this protest himself) told me he did
: consider Grand Duke Wladimir to be head of
: the imperial house but had agreed (as the
: then senior male after Wladimir) to sign
: this and describe Wladimir only as Prince
: after being persuaded by Prince Roman that
: the declaration that Grand Duchess Maria
: should be Guardian of the Throne was
: improper as the throne would pass to the
: nearest dynastic female relation of the last
: male dynasty. Although Wladimir was the
: youngest of the living male dynasts he would
: not necessarily be the last to die. As it
: happens he was but had Vsevolode survived
: him the heir today would be King Constantine
: of the Hellenes. The Grand Duke's decision
: to make this declaration without consulting
: his cousins was a tactical error that lost
: him some key supporters in the imperial
: family.
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: Yes, I am very familiar with all of the
: arguments. I was only expressing Dimitri's
: view (which he claimed was his father's
: view).
:
: --Previous Message--
: Dan,
:
: The succession to the throne/ headship of
: the Imperial House was an automatic one. But
: Priince Roman' s line did not want to ask
: permission from Grand duke Cyril who was the
: next in line and de jute Emperor/ head of
: the House.Roman' s oncle, the Grandduke
: Nicolas, formally head of the army and later
: Vice King of the Caucasus, was regarded by
: many as the better head. If his nephew would
: have asked Grandduke Cyril is would have
: been a sign that Curil was head of the
: house. so they asked the Dowager Empress ...
: Her agreement however was a mere moral, but
: no legal permission. the permission was
: needed. The Countess was however not of
: equal standing and a marriage - even if with
: permission - would not have given their
: sons succession rights. Therefore, under no
: circumstances NIcolas and Dimitir would have
: been Princes of Russia or head of the
: Imperial House. Only Grandduchess Maria
: Vladimirovna is the legimate head of the
: Imperial Family.
:
: --Previous Message--
: Dimitri Romanoff, the younger son of HH
: Prince
: Roman of Russia and Countess Prascovia
: Cheremeteva, died 31 Dec 2016 in a hospital
: in Denmark. He was 90. He is survived by his
: widow, Feodora (née Dorrit Reventlow). He
: had no children.
:
: As President of the Romanoff Family
: Association he was also the head of that
: association's charitable foundation which
: raised money for several causes to benefit
: the people of Russia. The bequests were
: often medical equipment and supplies.
:
: Dimitri's position in the family was
: disputed. According to the generally
: acknowledged Head of the House, Grand
: Duchess Maria, he was not a member of the
: Imperial House, the same opinion she
: currently has of every other Romanoff,
: except her son. In her view, Dimitri was
: simply Mr. Dimitri Romanoff.
:
: Dimitri's father, Prince Roman Petrovich,
: was of the opinion in 1921 (when he married
: Prascovia) that there was no longer an
: Empire, and there was no longer an Emperor,
: so there was no one that he had ask
: permission from to marry. As a result, he
: never asked for, nor did he receive, any
: title for his wife or children. By Roman's
: thinking his children would be HH Prince
: Nicolas (d.2014) and HSH Prince Dimitri of
: Russia.
:
: The current Russian government, which
: recently awarded him the Order of Alexander
: Nevsky for his charitable work, refers to
: him as "Prince Dimitri Romanoff."
:
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