The Benelux Royals Message Board: Re: House of Orange-Nassau

Perhaps the Van Laurenburg is a bit far fetched but I agree that efforts should have been made to establish and maintain the House of Orange-Nassau outside the strict perimeters of the monarchy. The Nassau House Treaty was followed right until Wilhelmina. Now the House of O-N and the monarchy are too intertwined. Wilhelmina was the last heir of the House of Oranje-Nassau and probably thought a male heir would solve things but she never took action when it became clear Juliana was again the only heir. Juliana and Beatrix also lacked a clear vision. Despite not having consent from Parliament, Irene and Christina's children should have been given hereditary HH Prince of Oranje-Nassau titles. The decision to use non-hereditary HH for the Van Vollenhovens was a mistake I think. They should have been HRH because their mother married with consent of the government and all remained in line to the throne. Same goes for Constantijns children. Friso's children could have gotten HH Princess of Oranje-Nassau titles and Beatrix should not have given Friso his HRH style back but a hereditary HH title. Why all of a sudden these comital titles were invented is a mystery to me. There was quite some opposition from people who actually know a thing or two about this but it was overruled by the government at the time. I could be wrong but I always thought that the Oranje-Nassaus were never Counts of Oranje-Nassau: Formally they remained counts of Nassau until Willem VI / King Willem I. When King Willem I abdicated he styled himself Count of Nassau. After he was designated heir of Willem III, Johan Willem Friso (as heir to his father Hendrik Casmir von Nassau-Dietz) was the first to start with the style Prince of Oranje-Nassau but it was never formalised I think but more a practise....

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I've never been a fan of extending the name Van Oranje-Nassau too far. While currently only Count Claus-Casimir can transmit the count title his two sisters as well as the two daughters of his deceased uncle Friso can transmit the family name to their spouses and descendants.

I would have preferred a different situation when it comes to titles within the Dutch Royal family.
Instead of the current two tear system i'd go for a larger one:
1) Royal House
2) Royal Family
3) House of Orange-Nassau
4) Family of the monarch

1) The Royal House:
That should basically contain every member of the family with a Der Nederlanden-title (exception Princess Irene as her titles were set at the moment she married). This is basically children and spouses of the main line.
Spouses have to get consent for their marriage in order to enter the Royal House and automatically get the gender appropriate titles of their Royal spouse.
HM the King of the Netherlands, prince of Orange-Nassau
HM the Queen of the Netherlands, princess of Orange-Nassau
HM Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands, princess of Orange-Nassau, Princess of Lippe-Biesterfeld
HRH the Princess of Orange, princess of the Netherlands, princess of Orange-Nassau
HRH Princess Alexia of the Netherlands, princess of Orange-Nassau
HRH Princess Ariane of the Netherlands, princess of Orange-Nassau
HRH Prince Constantijn of the Netherlands, prince of Orange-Nassau, jonkheer van Amsberg
HRH Princess Laurentien of the Netherlands, princess of Orange-Nassau, mrs Van Amsberg born Brinkhorst
HRH Princess Margriet of the Netherlands, princess of Orange-Nassau, Princess of Lippe-Biesterfeld
HRH Prince Pieter of the Netherlands, prince of Orange-Nassau, mr Van Vollenhoven.

2) Royal Family
Basically those born in line of succession but without a Netherlands-title not having lost it through an undynastic/unconsented marriage.
Exception:
HRH Princess Irene of the Netherlands, princess of Orange-Nassau, princess of Lippe-Biesterfeld (as this was agreed upon her marriage).
The rest:
HH princess Eloise of Orange-Nassau, jonkvrouwe van Amsberg
HH prince Claus-Casimir of Orange-Nassau, jonkheer van Amsberg
HH princess Leonore of Orange-Nassau, jonkvrouw van Amsberg
HH prince Maurits of Orange-Nassau, van Vollenhoven
HH princess Marilene of Orange-Nassau, van Vollenhoven, born Van den Broek
HH prince Bernhard of Orange-Nassau, van Vollenhoven
HH princess Annette of Orange-Nassau, van Vollenhoven, born Sekreve.

3) House of Orange-Nassau
split in two: dynastic and undynastic members

a) dynastic
HE countess Anastasia van Laurenburg-Vollenhoven
HE count Lucas van Laurenburg-Vollenhoven
HE countess Felicia van Laurenburg-Vollenhoven
HE countess Isabella van Laurenburg-Vollenhoven
HE count Samuel van Laurenburg-Vollenhoven
HE count Benjamin van Laurenburg-Vollenhoven

b) non-dynastic:
Countess Mabel van Laurenburg-Amsberg
Count Pieter-Christiaan van Laurenburg-Vollenhoven
Countess Anita van Laurenburg-Vollenhoven
Count Floris van Laurenburg-Vollenhoven
Countess Aimee van Laurenburg-Vollenhoven

note that non-dynastic members do not get the style of His/Her Excellence. As non-dynastic member will never have to represent the monarch in any capacity.

4) family of the monarch
every other relative of the King
jonkvrouwe Luana van Amsberg
jonkvrouwe Zaria van Amsberg
miss Emma van Vollenhoven
mister Pieter van Vollenhoven
miss Magali van Vollenhoven
miss Eliane van Vollenhoven
mister Willem-Jan van Vollenhoven

descendants of princesses Irene and Christina as well as the relatives of the late prince Claus and HM the Queen.

I would have liked the introduction of the HE count(ess) van Laurenburg-xxx title so there is a little distance in style and name from the main line and the dynasty can grow. As a dynastic title of the House of Orange-Nassau rather than a normal Dutch noble title i'd be in favour of it transmitting both in the male an female line but it would require consent from the Head of the House of Orange-Nassau => the Monarch.

As an addition i'd forbid the use of the Netherlands- and Orange-Nassau-titles in a professional/commercial capacity. Descendants of Queen Beatrix have the Van Amsberg surname they can use and those of her sister Margriet can use Van Vollenhoven. In other words not HH prince Bernhard of Orange-Nassau but Bernhard van Vollenhoven has set up a lucrative business. Not HH princess Eloise of Orange-Nassau is starting a vintage shop but Eloise van Amsberg.

Anyone in category 1 and 2 has to have permission from the monarch for career choices and business activities they develop. The dynastic members of 3 also can be restricted in their choices by the monarch as they are potential heirs to become the Head of the House of Orange-Nassau.

Turning 18 they can swear an oath of allegiance before receiving their order and access to the House possessions (the Royal Archives, jewels, art collection but also financial support and diplomatic passports).

It would provide a large body of potential heir(esse)s to ensure the survival of the House but it would also make it clear that if you leave you are out and your descendants return to just being normal citizens without any perks from their royal ancestry.

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The Dutch royal house remains very compact with a very small number of titled Orange-Nassaus. Currently only Amalia and Claus Casimir will be able to transfer their O-N titles to a next generation and Claus is the only one with the potential for a proper hereditary line now. Amalia can only transfer titles by royal decree. Things look very bleak indeed if both have no male heirs.
Quite remarkable for such an illustrious House to fade away in that respect. Interesting to see that most (protestant) European reigning Houses want to curtail the number of princely titles, while others and especially non-reigning houses seem hell bend on leaving behind as many as possible....

If only they would have granted Margriet's grandchildren the same comital title van Oranje-Nassau things would have looked a bit better:

- Friso van Oranje-Nassau
- Luana, Gravin van Oranje-Nassau
- Zaria, Gravin van Oranje-Nassau
- Constantijn van Oranje Nassau
- Eloise, Gravin van Oranje-Nassau
- Claus-Casimir van Oranje-Nassau
- Leonor van Oranje-Nassau
- Maurits van Oranje-Nassau
- Anna, Gravin van Oranje-Nassau
- Lucas, Graaf van Oranje-Nassau
- Felicia, Gravin van Oranje-Nassau
- Bernhard
- Isabella, Gravin van Oranje-Nassau
- Samuel, Graaf van Oranje-Nassau
- Benjamin, Graaf van Oranje-Nassau
- Pieter Christiaan
- Emma, Gravin van Orranje-Nassau
- Pieter, Graaf van Oranje-Nassau
- Floris van Oranje-Nassau
- Magali, Gravin van Oranje-Nassau
- Eliane, Gravin van Oranje-Nassau
- Willem Jan, Graaf van Oranje-Nassau

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I don't think there are currently any limitations all male line descendants of Henri's younger sons an those of his brother Guillaume and cousin Robert are set to be prince(ss) of Nassau.
Most of them don't live in Luxembourg though. I think this arrangement is similar to what happens in Liechtenstein where all male line descendants are prince(ss) as well.
Does it really matter that much if they are princes(es) of Nassau or count(esse)s of Orange-Nassau? As long as the Dutch nobility law only allows titles to transfer in the male line only count Claus-Casimir can transmit the title to his descendants. They could be his biological offspring (he does not have to be married to the mother) or his adopted offspring. If the rules were to be altered to also allow female line inheritance of titles his two sisters and two cousins would make five people who can transmit the title. With two or three kids each in every generation we'd have plenty of Orange-Nassau's roaming around the country as well

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You are quite right of course. I meant it in a more general way: princes IN Luxemburg, Will the descendants of the grandchildren of Henri continue to carry the hereditary title Prince(ss) of Nassau or will this be currbed? With the rate they are going 1% of the country will be styled Prince(ss) of Nassau at some point.

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There are only a limited amount of princes and princesses of Luxembourg. They are mainly all children of the main line. Grandchildren of the main line are prince(ss) of Nassau.

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This unregulated growth of the number of princes(ses) of Luxemburg is now bordering the ridiculous. When is the government going to intervene? Evidently Henri has no intention of curbing it.

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"Her father Guillaume IV made each of his six daughters male dynasts. It's unlikely that will ever have to be tested."

In today's world, unless one is the heir, he doesn't really stand a reasonable chance of succession. The line to the throne is largely an academic one. It only stands to reason that if not even Prince François can be expected to reign, why should it be relevant that Princess Alexandra displaced her younger brother, Prince Sebastian, with the change of law, or that her aunts and female cousins remain excluded from the throne?

Indeed, the said theory is even LESS likely to be tested precisely because the line of succession got expanded through the change of law -- by including female descendants of the present sovereign, Grand Duke Henri.