Posted by Butch Cappel on 11/25/2005, 7:49 am, in reply to "Re: Information Butch requested"
207.7.242.73

Mark, Sorry for what is an obvious mistake on my part. I thought you said “breeds used in the CREATION of the Doberman.” I had no ideas you were speaking of breeds used in the “refinement” of the breed fifty or sixty years after it had been started. I do not have any recorded information on “refinements” done on breeds after they are established with a Breed Club and a Registry. But you do bring up something that has become a great puzzle to me on the internet. If I may ask your assistance in clearing this up I would be grateful. There seems to be a lot of people making internet statements that have little or no basis in fact, at least not in facts that I can discover. Let me make this perfectly clear I am not saying they are wrong, or mistaken, or anything like that. I am saying that with the computer there are obviously sources out there that I cannot access. This must be where this information comes from. Not knowing these people I didn’t want to ask and risk offending them, but you have brought up one of the many questions I can never find an answer for, and I feel you will answer me correctly, if you have the time? Thank you. Here is my example, from your post; “It's widely held that pointer and sight hound were added, but MUCH later. Later like... mid 1900s.” So here is what I don’t understand. As the breed had been recognized at the beginning of the century, Otto Goeller wrote the first standard and it was accepted by the German Kennel Club in 1900, U.S. club formed in 1921. From 1900 on, the breed had a standard and a pedigree/registry system. Now, as registries only record pure breeds and also only on dogs that they have a pedigree on, how could a registry register pups bred to dogs of another breed? Aren’t the pups considered mutts by any registry? Would that not make all pups born to these pups, even if bred back to Dobes, more mutts? Without both parents having been registered from the first cross all future pups are also mutts so how did the Weimar get into the gene pool “MUCH later. “Later like… mid 1900s.” and still get registered? This project must have been a Kennel club project, as when the AQHA appendix registered Thoroughbreds to improve the distance running of the Quarter Horse. Of course these out crossings were meticulously recorded and controlled. I’m sure the FCI or AKC did the same with their records, but I cannot find anything on this project. Also the German Kennel Club is an FCI affiliate so if they did this how did they get the AKC to approve pedigrees on these out crosses? And lastly where can I get copies of these pedigrees for my future elucidation and my reference library? Appreciate your time on this as I am still learning so much about the resources on the www and I am sure your sources will help. I know people certainly wouldn’t post things without making sure they are factual. I just need to know where you get all this cool information? Thanks in advance Butch Cappel

Link: http://www.k9kountry.nu