Posted by Ernie on 3/15/2007, 2:04 pm, in reply to "Re: Blood Brothers Episode!" I had to point out to him that the times in which TOD was on the air, TV had more restrictions on what to air and these restrictions were put on by governmental agencies. For TV, TOD was as 'realistic' as it could be for it's time. I also pointed out that it was easier for me to watch this show because of it's lesser blood and guts! I don't care for movies like "The Platoon" or "Deer Hunter" for these are too graphic. And these efforts went overboard in depicting the psychological mess and the boys in the battlefields looked bad. There was a lot of this in Vietnam but not all of the warriors were psychos. And My Lai was not the only fiasco; just the worst! I suppose that it seems that I am defending the grunts as I was on that level. But, I still contend that the grunts were not the reasons why we lost the war. And TOD clearly proved that! BTW, the young man did not repudiate any of my points. I don't say that I changed his mind but the lady that disagreed with him had a right to. It is so good to have a show like TOD to give us a look at other issues and maybe make us think and I enjoy a good discussion on the subject. Thank you TOD, for giving us a great show and a few guys for the ladies to drool over. Ernie... --Previous Message--
Thanks Pen! I sometimes sound like a know-it-all but I love how TOD depicted the war in Southeast Asia as it truly was. Some time ago, a man (I think he is from Australia) stated on IMDb that TOD dealt with issues too much and did not have enough blood and guts to make it realistic. Someone else was critical of his approach and he got offended.
: You are truly amazing, Ernie. So
: knowledgeable about so much related to this
: war. Thanks for setting me straight.
:
: --Previous Message--
: I agree about the chessboard tactics. This
: was not a war that could be fought like any
: other war. When Gen. Goldman said that you
: took ground in his day and young Goldman
: pointed out that was not the case in this
: war but he still did not get it. Kennedy
: did have experience in the military but he
: was only sending "advisers" to
: show the Vietnamese how to fight the war.
: Johnson got rid of him and stepped up the
: war effort within hours of taking over the
: duties of President.
:
: I truly believe that the Politicals and
: Pentagon did not know how to fight the war
: in Vietnam. To the Pentagon, it was
: fighting like they had learned how to do at
: West Point and it clearly did not work. For
: the political menagerie (from Johnson on
: down), it was not a matter of winning but
: who can make the most money for the business
: world.
:
: TOD used the conflict between the Goldmans
: to stress the conflict between the brass and
: the "front line" grunts and showed
: us how the conflict affected the war. As it
: has been said, this was a cleverly written
: episode. The military these days will try
: to tell you that this war was lost because
: of drugs; war protesters; racial tensions;
: and psychological breakdowns but TOD showed
: us differently.
:
: I have read a lot of the commentary on this
: war by Lee Russell and he said the military
: (at the time of this show) was continually
: nixing this or that on the writing of the
: show. Why? Because they did not like it
: when TOD would make the military look bad
: especially when it was true. TOD was not
: just a group of attractive young men doing
: some great acting. TOD was foremost in
: giving us the true scoop on the real war in
: Southeast Asia. Ernie...
:
: --Previous Message--
: Lorna is spot on when she mentoned
: chessboard
: manuvers. That's the exact way I felt when
: the 2 bigwigs were "directing" the
: men below. I think I would have smacked
: them silly if I'd been there. What idiots.
: That's certainly not how it was done in WWII
: or Korea for god's sake. I have a big
: but-------I always thought the brass was at
: loggerheads with the pols over who was to
: "direct" the war. It seems, as I
: recall, that the brass was disgusted with
: the fact that whomever was president at the
: time was the one that set up the battles and
: told the brass how it was to be done and the
: only one who had battle experience was
: Kennedy. Am I wrong about this?
:
: --Previous Message--
: Thanks Lorna. Good point about the game
: being
: played from the chopper above. I find
: myself wanting someone to shoot the big bird
: and make him go away! Interesting, but
: Anderson was one of the reasons why young
: Goldman did not do as he was ordered, but
: Myron got the brunt of the butt chewing.
: Lt. was proving to be a good officer in my
: estimation. But man did he look young!
: Ernie...
:
: --Previous Message--
: Thanks Ernie
: You have encapsulated the theme of this
: episode so accurately with your post.
: I particularly liked the contrast drawn
: between Goldman's cold anger and mistrust of
: his father and the warm friendship and sense
: of dependence he was learning to form with
: Anderson.
: Also It was horrifying to me , watching the
: scene where Dalby and Goldman sen. were in
: the chopper, watching the exercise below and
: Dalby was attempting to move the troops
: around like pawns in a chess match, with
: scant regard for their survival!
: This was a very cleverly written episode
: with the drugs theme being used to prove to
: the General that he could not measure his
: son's ability/performance in the field by
: the same yardstick as he would have used
: during his active service, as 'Nam was
: indeed a very different war.
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: When I suggested that we cover an episode a
: week and chat about it on the chatboard of
: this site, I also suggested we use Hum 90
: for discussions and posts. Since we have
: decided to try Hum 90's chatroom, I feel
: that it is only fair to use this message
: board for discussions and comments. Not
: everyone is involved in the chats each week,
: so this is a great way for them to get
: involved in Tour Of Duty discussions.
:
: Blood Brothers deals with two issues in the
: Vietnam war that were both vital to the
: overall outcome of the war. We lost that
: war and there had to have been reasons why
: we did, don't you think?
:
: The conflict between the Goldmans was
: indicative of the overall conflict between
: the Gods of War and battle warriors. The
: brass did not know how to fight the enemy of
: Southeast Asia and certainly did not know
: how to train the fighting men to engage in
: jungle warfare. At Fort Polk, my training
: was very conventional and taking the land
: was the objective. To try to give the
: training the jungle elements for atmosphere;
: they went out and found some bamboo for
: affect! Okay! This does it! I know how to
: kill them suckas now!
:
: When Gen. Goldman left he had the decency to
: admit that he learned that it was not the
: same type of war that he wanted it to be.
: Young Lt. Goldman got the point across to
: him, but what good did it do?
:
: So for the dogs of war (the actual grunts)
: fighting the war was difficult and it was
: frustrating not to have the support of the
: brass. The Jimi Hendrix's poster meant
: something to the true warriors and was
: summarily dismissed by the brass. This made
: it very clear to them, that they had to
: 'wing it' very much on their own.
:
: Young Lt. Goldman was treating Sgt. Anderson
: as a confidant and friend. This was not all
: that common in actuality, but it shows the
: young officer coming to terms with his own
: inexperience and leaning on the experienced
: years of his sergeant for support. Anderson
: had been over in the jungle war long enough
: to have come to an understanding that it was
: not the same as WWII.
:
: The soldier who had to face the jungle
: warfare daily turned to drugs to deal with
: the harsh reality. I do not condone drugs,
: but I can see how easy it would be to use
: drugs as a means of escape. Sadly, drugs
: killed just as effectively as the NVA or
: Viet Cong.
:
: And the risk Ruiz took for the cherry is
: mind boggling! It did not happen that way
: very often. However, as in all wars, you
: looked out for your fellow man, and they
: looked out for you when it was necessary.
: Ernie...
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