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Posted by Fritz's Ferret on 7/27/2007, 12:45 am, in reply to "Zarathustra 18: Old and Young Women"
75.2.46.X
I always get annoyed at commentators who turn cheeky and supercilious when they discuss any aspect of Nietzsche's teaching that flies in the face of our reigning prejudices, as though every idol is fair game except the beloved idols of our own age. So Nietzsche's dissent from the ideology of gender equality gets him denounced as flawed and misogynous, inflammatory labels that serve as handy substitutes for any effort to understand his teaching and evaluate its merits. Not only that, but his alleged misogyny gives us permission to speculate about how this horrible vice may have ruined his prospects for a happy life with Lou, which in turn may have further inflamed that very same vice. Why take these cheap shots instead of engaging in careful exegesis and analysis? Any possibility of gaining insight into Nietzsche's teaching on women and men is thereby foreclosed, but at least we get to wallow in the conceit that we are somehow superior to one of the greatest philosophers of all time.
--Previous Message--
: [Of course one can attempt to see deeper
: symbolism in this section, but I think that
: it shows mainly that Nietzsche, for all his
: fantastic insights, had one flaw in that he
: was misogynous. No wonder that Lou-Andrea
: didn't accept his proposal for a "two
: year marriage." Note though that in the
: famous picture with her and Ree,
: http://www.stopczyk-philosophie.de/LouNietzsche.jpg
: it is Lou who is holding the whip! I wonder
: if the bitterness after Lou's departure
: could have aggravated Nietzsche's misogyny
: which really explodes in the Zarathustra and
: in Beyond Good and Evil §238-239?
: Thomas]
:
: "Why stealest thou along so furtively
: in the twilight, Zarathustra? And what
: hidest thou so carefully under thy mantle?
: Is it a treasure that hath been given thee?
: Or a child that hath been born thee? Or
: goest thou thyself on a thief's errand, thou
: friend of the evil?"--
: Verily, my brother, said Zarathustra, it is
: a treasure that hath been given me: it is a
: little truth which I carry.
: But it is naughty, like a young child; and
: if I hold not its mouth, it screameth too
: loudly.
: As I went on my way alone to-day, at the
: hour when the sun declineth, there met me an
: old woman, and she spake thus unto my soul:
: "Much hath Zarathustra spoken also to
: us women, but never spake he unto us
: concerning woman."
: And I answered her: "Concerning woman,
: one should only talk unto men."
: "Talk also unto me of woman," said
: she; "I am old enough to forget it
: presently."
: And I obliged the old woman and spake thus
: unto her: Everything in woman is a riddle,
: and everything in woman hath one solution
: --it is called pregnancy.
: Man is for woman a means: the purpose is
: always the child. But what is woman for man?
: Two different things wanteth the true man:
: danger and diversion. Therefore wanteth he
: woman, as the most dangerous plaything.
: Man shall be trained for war, and woman for
: the recreation of the warrior: all else is
: folly.
: Too sweet fruits--these the warrior liketh
: not. Therefore liketh he woman;--bitter is
: even the sweetest woman.
: Better than man doth woman understand
: children, but man is more childish than
: woman.
: In the true man there is a child hidden: it
: wanteth to play. Up then, ye women, and
: discover the child in man!
: A plaything let woman be, pure and fine like
: the precious stone, illumined with the
: virtues of a world not yet come.
: Let the beam of a star shine in your love!
: Let your hope say: "May I bear the
: Superman!"
: In your love let there be valour! With your
: love shall ye assail him who inspireth you
: with fear!
: In your love be your honour! Little doth
: woman understand otherwise about honour. But
: let this be your honour: always to love more
: than ye are loved, and never be the second.
: Let man fear woman when she loveth: then
: maketh she every sacrifice, and everything
: else she regardeth as worthless.
: Let man fear woman when she hateth: for man
: in his innermost soul is merely evil; woman,
: however, is mean.
: Whom hateth woman most?--Thus spake the iron
: to the loadstone: "I hate thee most,
: because thou attractest, but art too weak to
: draw unto thee."
: The happiness of man is, "I will."
: The happiness of woman is, "He
: will."
: "Lo! now hath the world become
: perfect!"--thus thinketh every woman
: when she obeyeth with all her love.
: Obey, must the woman, and find a depth for
: her surface. Surface, is woman's soul, a
: mobile, stormy film on shallow water.
: Man's soul, however, is deep, its current
: gusheth in subterranean caverns: woman
: surmiseth its force, but comprehendeth it
: not.--
: Then answered me the old woman: "Many
: fine things hath Zarathustra said,
: especially for those who are young enough
: for them.
: Strange! Zarathustra knoweth little about
: woman, and yet he is right about them! Doth
: this happen, because with women nothing is
: impossible?
: And now accept a little truth by way of
: thanks! I am old enough for it!
: Swaddle it up and hold its mouth: otherwise
: it will scream too loudly, the little
: truth."
: "Give me, woman, thy little
: truth!" said I. And thus spake the old
: woman: "Thou goest to women? Do not
: forget thy whip!"--
: Thus spake Zarathustra.
:
: [The whip, Nietzsche had said later was of
: course a joke. (Conversations with
: Nietzsche, Sander Gilman)]
:
:
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