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Posted by Red on 6/8/2007, 10:07 am, in reply to "Zarathustra 4: The Despisers of the Body" --Previous Message--
216.37.37.X
By "despisers of the body," does he mean ascetics or people who dislike their own bodies - wish they were taller, etc.? Or both?
: To the despisers of the body will I speak my
: word. I wish them neither to learn afresh,
: nor teach anew, but only to bid farewell to
: their own bodies,--and thus be dumb.
: "Body am I, and soul [Seele]"--so
: saith the child. And why should one not
: speak like children?
: But the awakened one, the knowing one,
: saith: "Body am I entirely, and nothing
: more; and soul is only the name of something
: in the body."
: [The children here are merely reciting folk
: psychology, and must be different from the
: creating child in the Three Metamorphoses.
: Now what is this soul that is
: "something in the body"? Th.]
:
: The body is a big sagacity [Verfnunft: also
: means: reason, rationality], a plurality
: with one sense [Sinne], a war and a peace, a
: flock and a shepherd.
: [I wonder: what is the "one sense"
: of the plurality of the body, who is the
: shepherd of the flock? Th.]
:
: An instrument of thy body is also thy little
: sagacity, my brother, which thou callest
: "spirit" [Geist]--a little
: instrument and plaything of thy big
: sagacity.
: "Ego [Ich]," sayest thou, and art
: proud of that word. But the greater
: thing--in which thou art unwilling to
: believe--is thy body with its big sagacity;
: it saith not "ego," but doeth it.
: What the sense feeleth, what the spirit
: discerneth, hath never its end in itself.
: But sense and spirit would fain persuade
: thee that they are the end of all things: so
: vain are they.
: Instruments and playthings are sense and
: spirit: behind them there is still the Self
: [das Selbst]. The Self seeketh with the eyes
: of the senses, it hearkeneth also with the
: ears of the spirit.
: [Could the Self be the shepherd of the body,
: the "something in the body" called
: "soul"? Th.]
:
: Ever hearkeneth the Self, and seeketh; it
: compareth, mastereth, conquereth, and
: destroyeth. It ruleth, and is also the ego's
: ruler.
: Behind thy thoughts and feelings, my
: brother, there is a mighty lord, an unknown
: sage--it is called Self; it dwelleth in thy
: body, it is thy body.
: [The Self seems to be both included and
: equal to the body? Th.]
:
: There is more sagacity in thy body than in
: thy best wisdom [Weisheit]. And who then
: knoweth why thy body requireth [nötig hat:
: needs] just thy best wisdom?
: [Why does the body/Self/great sagacity need
: one's best wisdom? Th.]
:
: Thy Self laugheth at thine ego, and its
: proud prancings. "What are these
: prancings and flights of thought unto
: me?" it saith to itself. "A by-way
: to my purpose. I am the leading-string of
: the ego, and the prompter of its
: notions."
: The Self saith unto the ego: "Feel
: pain!" And thereupon it suffereth, and
: thinketh how it may put an end thereto--and
: for that very purpose it IS MEANT to think.
: The Self saith unto the ego: "Feel
: pleasure!" Thereupon it rejoiceth, and
: thinketh how it may ofttimes rejoice--and
: for that very purpose it IS MEANT to think.
: [It appears that the ego (and the best
: wisdom) are mere puppets of the
: Self/body/great sagacity... Th.]
:
: To the despisers of the body will I speak a
: word. That they despise is caused by their
: esteem. What is it that created esteeming
: and despising and worth and will?
: The creating Self created for itself
: esteeming and despising, it created for
: itself joy and woe. The creating body
: created for itself spirit, as a hand to its
: will.
: [Another term: will, that could be equated
: with the Self/body/great sagacity. This
: complex uses the spirit, best wisdom and the
: ego as tools. Th.]
:
: Even in your folly and despising ye each
: serve your Self, ye despisers of the body. I
: tell you, your very Self wanteth to die, and
: turneth away from life.
: No longer can your Self do that which it
: desireth most:--create beyond itself. That
: is what it desireth most; that is all its
: fervour.
: But it is now too late to do so:--so your
: Self wisheth to succumb, ye despisers of the
: body.
: To succumb--so wisheth your Self; and
: therefore have ye become despisers of the
: body. For ye can no longer create beyond
: yourselves.
: And therefore are ye now angry with life and
: with the earth. And unconscious [ungewusst]
: envy is in the sidelong look of your
: contempt.
: [And finally here we have a possible
: forerunner of Freud's notion of unconscious
: motives. Th.
:
: I go not your way, ye despisers of the body!
: Ye are no bridges for me to the Superman!--
: Thus spake Zarathustra.
:
: [Jung, in his Seminary on the Zarathustra,
: attacks Nietzsche's notion of a Self equated
: to the body, but Jung does this from his own
: terminology where the Self has become
: equated with the totality of the psyche
: including his quite mythical
: "collective unconscious". But I
: feel that Nietzsche should be read on his
: own terms, and his vision of a deeper self
: akin to the body reminds me of the phrase of
: Fritz Perls, founder of Gestalt therapy;
: “loose your mind and come to your senses.”
: Thomas]
:
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