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Posted by Thomas on 2/17/2007, 9:54 am First of all I think Common is wrong in translating `Ich liebe die Menschen' as: 'I love mankind': a Christian can love mankind abstractly through God, by I believe that Zarathustra's love will be for people in particular: the German is literally: "I love men".
193.252.105.X
I will return to the Thomas Common translation here because I suspect that the modernized version of it by "Paul Douglas".
http://www.dsp.sun.ac.za/~jpool/misc/docs lacks credentials.
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Zarathustra went down the mountain alone, no one meeting him. When
he entered the forest, however, there suddenly stood before him an old man, who had left his holy cot to seek roots. And thus spake the old man to Zarathustra:
"No stranger to me is this wanderer: many years ago passed he by.
Zarathustra he was called; but he hath altered.
Then thou carriedst thine ashes into the mountains: wilt thou now
carry thy fire into the valleys? Fearest thou not the incendiary's
doom?
Yea, I recognize Zarathustra. Pure is his eye, and no loathing
lurketh about his mouth. Goeth he not along like a dancer?
Altered is Zarathustra; a child hath Zarathustra become; an awakened one is Zarathustra: what wilt thou do in the land of the sleepers?
As in the sea hast thou lived in solitude, and it hath borne thee
up. Alas, wilt thou now go ashore? Alas, wilt thou again drag thy body thyself?"
Zarathustra answered: "I love mankind."
"Why," said the saint, "did I go into the forest and the desert? Was it not because I loved men far too well?
Now I love God: men, I do not love. Man is a thing too imperfect for me. Love to man would be fatal to me."
Zarathustra answered: "What spake I of love! I am bringing gifts
unto men."
"Give them nothing," said the saint. "Take rather part of their
load, and carry it along with them- that will be most agreeable unto
them: if only it be agreeable unto thee!
If, however, thou wilt give unto them, give them no more than an
alms, and let them also beg for it!"
"No," replied Zarathustra, "I give no alms. I am not poor enough for that."
The saint laughed at Zarathustra, and spake thus: "Then see to it
that they accept thy treasures! They are distrustful of anchorites,
and do not believe that we come with gifts.
The fall of our footsteps ringeth too hollow through their
streets. And just as at night, when they are in bed and hear a man
abroad long before sunrise, so they ask themselves concerning us:
Where goeth the thief?
Go not to men, but stay in the forest! Go rather to the animals! Why not be like me- a bear amongst bears, a bird amongst birds?"
"And what doeth the saint in the forest?" asked Zarathustra.
The saint answered: "I make hymns and sing them; and in making hymns I laugh and weep and mumble: thus do I praise God.
With singing, weeping, laughing, and mumbling do I praise the God
who is my God. But what dost thou bring us as a gift?"
When Zarathustra had heard these words, he bowed to the saint and
said: "What should I have to give thee! Let me rather hurry hence lest I take aught away from thee!"- And thus they parted from one
another, the old man and Zarathustra, laughing like schoolboys.
When Zarathustra was alone, however, he said to his heart: "Could it be possible! This old saint in the forest hath not yet heard of it, that God is dead!"
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I'm specially puzzled by the section on love:
Zarathustra answered: "I love mankind."
"Why," said the saint, "did I go into the forest and the desert? Was it not because I loved men far too well?
Now I love God: men, I do not love. Man is a thing too imperfect for me. Love to man would be fatal to me."
Zarathustra answered: "What spake I of love! I am bringing gifts
unto men."
This passage makes me think of two theories of love, Plato's in the Symposium and Augustine's philosophical theory of Christian love. According to Augustine, we must love our neighbor always "in Deo", in God, never only for him or herself, but for God, to bring him or her closer to God, etc... otherwise it's idolatry. The old Christian hermit seems to have totally failed as a Christian, he loved men too well, too much probably, perhaps not "in Deo". And now he only loves God without loving men which is totally non-Christian, so I think that God is really dead to the hermit, although he has not realized it consciously. Maybe Nietzsche is implying that God is no longer an active force in our world for anybody. I am myself agnostic, but I still think that God is alive as a force, and idea, a belief to a minority of sincere Christians.
As to Plato's love, eros in the Symposium, you begin by loving another (amorously) then loving ideas, finally the form of the Good itself. Zarathustra has been to the top, although he certainly does not believe in Plato's metaphysics, and is now climbing down into the cave, the world of daily life and illusion, and I think that when Zarathustra says he loves men, it is as eros, a life-force of desire, friendship, rather than Christian love, agapê.
Thomas
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