Posted by Podge |
- Re: Question Time
Posted by oakwoodbank
on 24/10/2009, 8:25 am, in reply to "Question Time"I still find it remarkable that no one mentioned 'culture'.
It is not the colour of the skin that is of prime importance but the culture that the person (and their ilk) bring to this country.
I have met several Polish people who are working in this country and, apart from their language, their general demeanour is very much like ours. That means they do not stick out like sore thumbs in a gathering of people. I have also worked with French, Germans, Greeks and they are good people who do not want to push their culture on the 'indigenous' people around them. In fact their culture is remarkably like ours.
Equally there are 'indigenous' people whose culture is not welcome; so really it is down to how people behave that matters and how well they are prepared to fit in without bringing a pantechnicon full of their own culture and setting up mini-ethnic centres here in Britain.
There is an old saying that goes, When in Rome do as Rome does. If the immigrants would abide by that we may have less aggravation and less need for a 'far right'.
When I was a young child in Stockport there was (as far as I could tell) only one coloured male living in the area. He had arrived from London at some stage. He was a great guy, gentle, quiet and was known as 'Black Bob'. But that was only to white people, you never dared to call him that in his presence.
County supporter and follower since 1946; now exiled in Anglesey.The older you get the more difficult it is to hide who you are; but after retirement it probably doesn't matter as no one cares.
- Re: Question Time
Posted by PSP
on 23/10/2009, 6:52 pm, in reply to "Question Time" - Re: Question Time
Posted by Ratzinger
on 24/10/2009, 12:18 am, in reply to "Re: Question Time"Brilliant!
I am....very creepy. - My opinion........
Posted by DJ
on 23/10/2009, 2:34 pm, in reply to "Question Time"I'm right against Nick Griffin who is a jumped up little Hitler, however lets face facts he performed very well. The whole thing was set up to destroy Nick Griffin but he did very well, considering he has made choices in the past they don't haunt him like they haunt other people.
The media make Hazell Mears out to be the biggest scumbag, and I believe it. Now they are trying it with Nick Griffin but I don't think the public will swallow it this time.
We live in a democracy and this programme managed to find the dumbest morons for a panel who only pushed in and talked over Mr. Griffin making the whole thing a farce. The question over Islam being evil had me nodding and agreeing, how does that happen?
I will not vote for Mr Griffin and the BNP but the representatives of other parties make it look like, if we don't like it, we will talk over you. Thats not democracy, thats bullshit.
At one point he was answering a question, then that stupid women interrupted, Mr Griffin continued, and then Jack Straw interrupted, then all started asking questions. But Mr Griffin managed to get straight back to his point, that was remarkable.
Very professional and thoroughly enjoyable at times but with an underlying deceptive evil lurking within. I wonder if Nick requested to be moved 1 seat to the left so he wouldn't be seen as being "Far Right" on the panel as well.
It was good overall, but there needs to be a couple more shows IMO.
- Re: My opinion........
Posted by Mozzer
on 23/10/2009, 3:06 pm, in reply to "My opinion........"considering he has made choices in the past they don't haunt him like they haunt other people.
Aye. Quite right. If you've previously denied the Holocaust, then when asked say that you've never actually be convicted of being a Holocaust denier, then when pressed further you come out with some utter shite about being prevented from saying what you think happened with regards to Holocaust by European Law, no way on earth should that haunt you like a particularly ghoulish spectre for the rest of your living days.
I'll wait to see it in full, but a politician continuing their point after others have interrupted them is not 'remarkable', it is what they're paid to do. Any half-decent (and I use the term advisedly) politician should be able to carry that off. - Re: My opinion........
Posted by tH
on 23/10/2009, 2:51 pm, in reply to "My opinion........"I disagree with all of that.
You come across as an apologist for him.
- Re: My opinion........
Posted by Nbobtu
on 23/10/2009, 4:33 pm, in reply to "Re: My opinion........"Griffin has used a Yellowboard tactic today - when your arguments are shown to be weak and unfounded, play the "I'm being bullied" card. Does he lurk on this board?
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20091023/tuk-bnp-leader-to-launch-bbc-complaint-dba1618.html
When you were here before, couldn't look you in the eye
You're just like Brett Angell, your goal made me cry - Re: My opinion........
Posted by DJ
on 23/10/2009, 4:26 pm, in reply to "Re: My opinion........"That's your opinion, I don't support him, I do support democracy something which took a battering last night.
My opinions are based on what I have found out in personal experience as a former member of the ANL a group who are just as bad as the BNP in my opinion.
Let them speak and say their peace and then watch the country decide, don't invite someone to talk and then belittle our nation by sniping at the opposition, this was question time. Not a debate.
Apologist? I just decipher through the bullshit and rather than act upon the impulse of hatred I have tried to come up with some common sense, so you come across to me as a someone with hatred that clouds your own judgment over the whole situation, with all respect. - Re: My opinion........
Posted by tH
on 23/10/2009, 5:00 pm, in reply to "Re: My opinion........"That's your opinion, I don't support him, I do support democracy something which took a battering last night.
How did democracy take a battering. He expressed views which to most are repulsive. He tried to dress those views up in a more acceptable form. He refused to address his awful past and anything that was remotely negative he dismissed as a misquote, despite it all being there for the world to see on youtube.
My opinions are based on what I have found out in personal experience as a former member of the ANL a group who are just as bad as the BNP in my opinion.
Nice one. So you used to be a member of the ANL an expect me to take your opinions on the BNP seriously? Positive or negative you're hardly a good example of even thinking are you?
Let them speak and say their peace and then watch the country decide, don't invite someone to talk and then belittle our nation by sniping at the opposition, this was question time. Not a debate.
I thought it was a debate but that the majority found his views unacceptable. Just like the majority of the UK do. That's democracy in practice.
Apologist? I just decipher through the bullshit and rather than act upon the impulse of hatred I have tried to come up with some common sense, so you come across to me as a someone with hatred that clouds your own judgment over the whole situation, with all respect.
I have hatred of very little and anything I do hate is based on personal experience just like you. - Re: Question Time
Posted by Jack
on 23/10/2009, 11:02 am, in reply to "Question Time"Most of the questions were pathetic, the second guy who looked as though he was about to start crying, they were all pretty much the same questions worded differently. Why the need for the other panelists? Why not just Question Time with Nick Griffin. All it was was BNP this BNP that. Jack Straw looked an absolute idiot. Why did the panelists need to tell us their family history? My grandfather did this? So what? Who cares? - Re: Question Time
Posted by Mozzer
on 23/10/2009, 11:16 am, in reply to "Re: Question Time"I have recorded it and have yet to watch it - it was on way past my bedtime - but I did see that one on the news. "My (grand)father flew for the RAF in the war therefore..." Therefore nothing, you dick. My grandad was a plumber. Does that mean I can tell you why your taps are leaking? Or that I could fix them? No, it f***ing doesn't. In fact if you wanted your house filled with water and your taps knackered beyond repair, you'd call me.
If patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel, what is using your family's history? - One question for you though Mozzer...
Posted by Alty Hatter
on 23/10/2009, 12:07 pm, in reply to "Re: Question Time"Why are my taps leaking? - Re: One question for you though Mozzer...
Posted by Mozzer
on 23/10/2009, 12:11 pm, in reply to "One question for you though Mozzer..."They are broken. Tw@t them really hard with a hammer. Repeatedly. If this doesn't work, tw@t them harder with a bigger hamer. Repeat until fixed.
No call out charge. Thank you for supporting a local family business. - Thanks
Posted by Alty Hatter
on 23/10/2009, 1:16 pm, in reply to "Re: One question for you though Mozzer..."It worked. - Re: Thanks
Posted by edEx
on 23/10/2009, 1:22 pm, in reply to "Thanks "Excellent stuff. Mozzer, do you do gas boilers too? - Re: Thanks
Posted by Buckler Row
on 23/10/2009, 1:39 pm, in reply to "Re: Thanks "By all accounts he's serviced his fair share of boilers in his time 
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.
Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. - Re: Thanks
Posted by Mozzer
on 23/10/2009, 1:28 pm, in reply to "Re: Thanks "Yep. Ask to borrow Alty's hammer, see what happens and get back to me.
Tip: Boilers can be hidden away in the darker parts of your house. Take a candle with you, just in case. - Re: Thanks
Posted by Alty Hatter
on 23/10/2009, 2:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Thanks "Yes, ours is in the cellar. As you know. - Re: Question Time
Posted by MWAH
on 23/10/2009, 11:54 am, in reply to "Re: Question Time"Take your point entirely Moz but I don't see anything wrong with 'patriotism' if applied with a conscience......
He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone - Re: Question Time
Posted by Mozzer
on 23/10/2009, 12:19 pm, in reply to "Re: Question Time"Perhaps true, although it's a dangerous game to get into once you stop talking football and start talking politics.
However I was merely stealing a famous quote to wonder aloud (and perhaps rhetorically) what it is that drives some people to take that line.
In another context and to perhaps illustrate the point better, you may recall (as I think you were there) someone disagreed with a point made at a County forum and they prefaced their comments with 'My grandfather used to play for this club' as though it gave the opinion to follow any more weight. Bizarre and pointless. - Re: Question Time
Posted by MWAH
on 23/10/2009, 12:44 pm, in reply to "Re: Question Time"I believe the comments which followed that initial statement were equally 'bizarre and pointless'...... 
He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone - Re: Question Time
Posted by Mini
on 23/10/2009, 8:17 am, in reply to "Question Time"Was expecting more to be honest.
It has become a farce QT recently, as all members of the paenl (political anyway) never answer any of the questions directly. They aren't even ashamed by it anymore either.
They are also often too busy talking over one another that it ends up with no one getting a point accross, or answering a question.
Straw was poor, bumbling along. I think his disgust of the BNP clouded his ability to have an informed debate and get accross any salient points.
Griffin will have been loving it when he was asked a difficult question, started to attempt to answer but was then talked over by all the other panl members.
I didn't learn anything new about him, other than he does a funny laugh and clap thing when he is uncomfortable.
All in all a fairly pointless excercise IMO. - Re: Question Time
Posted by TLOBS
on 23/10/2009, 7:11 am, in reply to "Question Time"Not as interesting or informative as the pre program hype indicated that it might have been.
I think he was set up for an on screen mauling by the BBC.
Far better was the final episode of Mastershout
- Re: Question Time
Posted by Philcounty
on 23/10/2009, 12:10 am, in reply to "Question Time"Yes it was thoroughly enjoyable. I think he was pretty much slaughtered 
My favourite quote was when he was trying to defend his association with David Duke by saying he was involved in "a largely non-violent Ku Klux Klan"
For anyone who hasn't seen the video they referred to, here it is
http://www.raise-a-smile.org/en/home.html - Re: Question Time
Posted by jamiescfc
on 22/10/2009, 11:09 pm, in reply to "Question Time"yeah Nick Griffin is a 
- Re: Question Time
Posted by Radcliffe Hatter
on 22/10/2009, 11:08 pm, in reply to "Question Time"Nick Griffin has one eye one it.
The other's looking at the floor. - Re: Question Time
Posted by Fuzzbox
on 23/10/2009, 12:09 am, in reply to "Re: Question Time"Nick Griffin's performance was not very accomplished from a man who in the past has relied on slick PR. Squirmish, agitated and evasive against a very hostile crowd, especially early on. However, I thought Jack Straw did himself and the Labour Party no favours either though - an equally bad performance.
On the subject of should he have been allowed on - why was that Bonnie Greer women allowed on? Is she a politician? No. Question Time over the past few years always has a leftfield non-politician (Eddie Izzard and the like), so the argument against banning Nick Griffin appears pretty weak. - Re: Question Time
Posted by Nbobtu
on 23/10/2009, 12:42 am, in reply to "Re: Question Time"Looked like he got a pretty good kicking there. On the subject of should he have been allowed on, on that evidence I'd be happy to have a BNP representative on every week. The damage done would soon become irreparable, tonight showed that BNP policies don't stand up to questioning and debate. He's probably their most media savvy and best orator (and he will have put hours of media traiing work in ahead of tonight) and was a visibly shaking disaster, so once a few of the "reserves" also got a grilling they'd be completely marginalised.
When you were here before, couldn't look you in the eye
You're just like Brett Angell, your goal made me cry - Re: Question Time
Posted by Philcounty
on 23/10/2009, 12:13 am, in reply to "Re: Question Time"Personally I thought she provided some quite humorous contributions and put him in his place on more than one occasion. I don't think the panel has to be entirely comprised of politicians, Griffins claim to such title is fairly dubious.
http://www.raise-a-smile.org/en/home.html - Re: Question Time
Posted by edEx
on 23/10/2009, 10:33 am, in reply to "Re: Question Time"Bonnie Greer, like Ian Hislop and Sandi Toksvig, regularly takes up the fourth panellist position, which is meant to provide the man-on-the-street perspective rather than the Westminster answer you'll get from the party representatives. I think she did rather well
- Re: Question Time
Posted by Fuzzbox
on 23/10/2009, 12:15 am, in reply to "Re: Question Time"Bonnie was a good panellist, but the point I'm making is against those who thought he should have been banned from appearing. Question Time is not just about having 3 panelists from the 3 main parties. For a long time it has had other contributors, from all walks of life and sections of society. - Re: Question Time
Posted by Podge
on 23/10/2009, 9:26 am, in reply to "Re: Question Time"A non-politician is able to say things that politicians aren't, which is why its good to have one on the show.
I'm young and bored of being young and bored, if I was old I could say I've seen it all before. - Re: Question Time
Posted by Philcounty
on 23/10/2009, 12:20 am, in reply to "Re: Question Time"Ah OK, I totally agree that he should have been allowed on. They've reached a level of popularity where it would be undemocratic to not allow him to "attempt" to defend himself.
I think this has been a very damaging week for the BNP, there were still many people who were swallowing the new and reformed BNP line. Hopefully after that they can see through the facade.
http://www.raise-a-smile.org/en/home.html - Re: Question Time
Posted by Gaz
on 23/10/2009, 1:20 am, in reply to "Re: Question Time"Jack straw made a fool of himself in my opinion. Denying that labour had failed on immigration made him look silly. I support labour but he portrayed a bad impression of the party. Griffin took a lot of questions and didnt handle many well, but the responce to the muslim question about supressing women etc had good points. Though I wouldnt go as far as labelling the religion as what he did.
Animo Et Fide - Re: Question Time
Posted by Philcounty
on 23/10/2009, 1:44 am, in reply to "Re: Question Time"I agree about Jack Straw and also think that some of the Islamic members of the audience should have been given the opportunity to defend their faith against the allegations he threw at them. The programme could have gone on for at least another hour for me, so much they couldn't fully explore.
http://www.raise-a-smile.org/en/home.html - Re: Question Time
Posted by MWAH
on 23/10/2009, 8:25 am, in reply to "Re: Question Time"It went on for far too long anyway as far as I'm concerned......blatant self-publicism by the BBC, journalists thinkin' they rule the world once more......if Dimbleby's grin got any wider he'd 've been getting hate mail from the Cheshire Cat (not the pub ! ).....the BNP's support base is tiny and the perceived rise in popularity is exactly that 'perceived'.......it's bollocks and worse than that media hyped bollocks......look at the thought process behind it, us workin' class types are so thick that at the first sign of recession we turn on the ethnic monorities and blame them for all the ills of the world......the media continues to be dominated by (upper 
)middle class pseudo-socialist (they waved a banner on that student protest you know) pseudo-intellectual self congratulationists who don't allow proper debate to happen because today if you've got any opinion at all you get slaughtered for it.......meanwhile their attitude to 'the working class' and especially the north of england is patronising in the extreme because although we might harbour a 'quaint' opinion or too we couldn't possibly be half as intelligent as them could we ?......I prefer my socialism 'dyed in the wool' from people who know their onions cos they've lived it......ask a journalist about 'Blanc' and they'll probably tell you that they prefer Sauvignon to Pinot Grigio........(that ones for the 'Reds' BTW)
He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone - Re: Question Time
Posted by Trimtrabs
on 23/10/2009, 8:24 am, in reply to "Re: Question Time"A few points for me ....
Griffin showed himself the knob that he is
After a good start Jack Straw showed himself and his party as the lying, gerry mandering, social engineering knobs they are when asked about immigration, ironic that it took a black guy and the Tory muslim woman to put the case across for everyones concerns on this issue!
The Tory rep came across well
The Liberal guy .......... well ......... that 2 faced git tried to plug into peoples ligitimate concerns about immigration by pretend outrage over the numbers! they supported the policy of the instant open door to eastern countries! typical slimey Liberal ..... loathsome creatures
David Dumbelby ..... laughable quote when after allowing 90% of the programme to just be a version of hyenas being filmed mauling a Wilderbeast he says "lets take another question as we dont want the programme to just be all about the BNP" ..... nearly wet myself as 2 questions later it was all over!
" Great night for the British Public, just look at the reaction of the audience here" cried one smug leftie ....... since when has a Question Time audience been a cross section of the public? hand picked to crucify Griffin when it was not needed, a true audience of people of the street might also have lead to the other parties being grilled with peoples concerns and still showed Griffin to be the knob that he is.
The upshot of last night for me ...... still nobody speaks for the ordinary bloke in the street and this unrestricted experiment will carry on and the BNP support will still rise until somebody listens. - Re: Question Time
Posted by Buckler Row
on 23/10/2009, 9:19 am, in reply to "Re: Question Time"BNP support has generally stagnated. The reason they won seats wasn't to do with mass support increase, more an apathy from voters who couldn't pick the best of a bad bunch.
The BBC loved last night & IMO the ratings for Question Time will be in the top 5 ratings for the week. Sources believe the normal viewing figures were increased by anything up to 6 times the norm for QT.
Nobody on the panel came across brilliant (they were mainly politicians so what did we expect), however the BNP did get a very good grilling, even if half the time they wouldn't let NG answer questions put to him.
If this has stirred some desire of the apathetic to vote then it was a useful excercise.
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.
Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. - Re: Question Time
Posted by Podge
on 23/10/2009, 9:25 am, in reply to "Re: Question Time"And partly to do with the way European elections allocate seats, which necessarily favours minority parties.
I'm young and bored of being young and bored, if I was old I could say I've seen it all before. - Re: Question Time
Posted by TLOBS
on 23/10/2009, 9:22 am, in reply to "Re: Question Time"I thought all the panelist were poor. That was the reason I turned it off well before the end!
Jack Straw looks to be economical with the truth to say the least.
- Re: Question Time
Posted by MWAH
on 23/10/2009, 8:31 am, in reply to "Re: Question Time"BNP support ain't rising Trimmy.....tis a fallacy.....public unrest at impotent politicians IS however.....BTW as far as lancashite is concerned you haven't been 'naturalised' yet........unless you've anythin' to confess....... 
He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone - Re: Question Time
Posted by Trimtrabs
on 23/10/2009, 9:45 am, in reply to "Re: Question Time"Your right my old mate in as much as membership, but there is a non-party active protest type support dormant ..... I work in Oldham a lot, live in t'hills now as you know and the whispered support by many allienated people (of all walks of life by the way) is pretty sizable in my opinion. It will never transfer to those actually joing as party members but when it comes to a tick in the box ..... diferent issue.
Voiceless people with legitimate concerns (you have to live in it and work within it to know it) represented by people who have a different agenda and live in a different world. For 90% of folk its not and never has been about colour, leave folk alone and they rub along pretty well, when the engineers start to do their work and people start to see changes take place at a speed that is often breathtaking then find that they cannot voice those concerns ... well it may take time but you will get a reaction of sorts and folk will turn to all manner of opportunists who 'listen'.
I think I am typical, I like to think I get on with anyone, colour,creed and race unimportant, but I do object to certain things changing before my eyes so .... and here's the rub ..... how and to whom do I convey that to? without being pilloried by the proffessional guardians of multiculturisim (spelling!!!)
- Re: Question Time
Posted by edEx
on 23/10/2009, 10:40 am, in reply to "Re: Question Time"As with many things wrong in this country at the moment I blame Tony Blair and his evangelism. His "faith schools" policy has caused nothing but further division within communities. Public education in this country can only work if it is secular as in the French system. As things stand not only do many parents now not meet at the school gates with people from other backgrounds as they used to, but in the schools that remain integrated the legal requirement for daily worship (something else I would remove) means their children are often segregated when it comes to assemblies.
How the hell are the next generation supposed to integrate with all that going on? Get rid. - Re: Question Time
Posted by Mozzer
on 23/10/2009, 10:44 am, in reply to "Re: Question Time"
- Re: Question Time
Posted by Trimtrabs
on 23/10/2009, 10:43 am, in reply to "Re: Question Time"Great post
