Posted by Ed on 11/16/2008, 11:10:45

I have only had boats with centerboards or daggerboards that would fully retract into hulls and would sit low on the trailer. Now that I am looking to sell my Saroca 17 (see post from Nov 9) and step up to a larger boat (considering a Com Pac, Montgomery, or O'Day with a cabin) with a shoal draft keel/centerboard combination, I am concerned about the ability to launch off ramps. How easy or difficult is it to launch say a Com Pac Eclipse or Legacy or other similar draft boats? I want to stay a trailer sailor. Ed

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Posted by Fred Gilbert on 11/16/2008, 12:07:40, in reply to "Launching boats with Deeper Drafts"

For sailboats with deep keels a tongue extender for the trailer seems to be the way to go. In case you have never seen one just picture a sliding extension between the trailer coupler and the trailer that allows the trailer/boat to slide farther into the water while the tow car/truck sits stationary on dry land. The extender can be part of the trailer or an add on, home made or manufactured. The biggest sailboat I have witnessed launch was a Capri/Catalina 26 with a fixed keel at Lake Havasu on the Colorado River. The extender was at least 10 foot long. My Sanibel is 18 feet long and with 12 inch tires I can launch most places staright from trailer but with safer 13 inch tires I have to use a four foot extender that bolts onto the front of the trailer tongue. Launching with a deep keel does add some more work but it isn't enough to keep one from trailer sailing, sure see lots of Cattalina/Capri 22's out there trailer sailing. If my memory is working correctly I think Capn'n Pauley had something on extenders a few months ago.

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Posted by Michel on 11/16/2008, 12:20:15, in reply to "Launching boats with Deeper Drafts"

Hi, I have helped a friend launch and retrieve his Oday 222 a few times (about 18" draft) A good ramp is a necessity. The higher the boat on the trailer, the farther you will have to back up in the ramp. Your vehicle may be too much in the water then or worse your boat will float but the wheels of the trailer will fall off the ramp end. You would be able to bring the trailer back empty but not with the boat on it! This is the worst scenario. It would be a good thing to make sure a ramp is deep and long enough before trying to launch. Many are more suited to motor boats and kayaks.

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Posted by Ed on 11/16/2008, 12:43:52, in reply to "Re: Launching boats with Deeper Drafts"

That's my concern. If you have to use an extension then you may end up sending the trailer over the edge. Furthermore, another step in the set up time to launch is less time on the water. The boats I had in mind all seem to have drafts between 15-18 inches. Can you get by most of the time without extensions or submerging the car?

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Posted by Michel on 11/16/2008, 13:36:31, in reply to "Re: Launching boats with Deeper Drafts"

A solution would be to make the boat sit lower on the trailer. I think every inch lower = a foot less down the ramp for the vehicle. A welder could modify a trailer.

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Posted by Dave Laux on 11/16/2008, 13:57:41, in reply to "Re: Launching boats with Deeper Drafts"

I modify trailers for sail boats as aregular thing. I am currently working on one for a Flicka. I am always suprised by the fac t that people will put up with having the boat set inplace by some idiot at a power boat shop with no clue about gettting the boat low on the trailer. For most trailerable boats in the class we are talking about you can launch without getting the trailer wet at all if its set up right. I have pics of a Seaward Fox going off and on without anything wet but the tires. Dave

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Posted by Ed on 11/16/2008, 14:07:46, in reply to "Re: Launching boats with Deeper Drafts"

Please send a link to the pictures. I just can't believe that the trailer is not in the water except for the tires with the boats we are talking about. To get a boat like a Saroca 17 or Sea Pearl 21 in the water without wetting tires or trailer, I can fathom that. Ed

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Posted by Michel on 11/16/2008, 15:41:50, in reply to "Re: Launching boats with Deeper Drafts"

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a228/michelboulet/P1000135.jpg I got rid of all the junk on the trailer and replaced it with some pieces of wood. Now the boat is as low as possible on the trailer and is afloat before the rear wheels of my minivan touch the water.

Posted by Carl on 11/17/2008, 10:39:35, in reply to "Re: Launching boats with Deeper Drafts"

We own a Starwind 19 with 18" draft, board up. We tow it with a Jeep Liberty. If your familar with Jeeps, you'll know that there isn't much vehicle aft of the rear axle. We have to put the rear bumper in the water to launch, and use the four wheel drive to retreive since the rear tires are submerged. This is with an 18" hitch extender so the trailer coupler will clear the spare tire. Lowering the boat on the trailer is an option, but it would be more $ than just extending the trailer tongue. I used an 8' extender on our last boat (3 1/2' draft) and the set up time was only a couple of minutes. Google trailer extenders and you should come up with a solution. I remember seeing an extender that another sailor made from construction lumber.

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Posted by Dave Laux on 11/17/2008, 15:00:30, in reply to "Re: Launching boats with Deeper Drafts"

It depends somewhat on where you launch and how much you like trailer work. Our boat is often launched in sea water and I don't like to work on trailer stuff so I launch our F-27 without wetting the trailer. I recommend dry launching if you have a rig heavy enough to require brakes. I know that you can't always do it but most boats under about 3000 lbs and with reasonable draft can be launched or retreived with out wetting the axle. The other side is that I watched a guy with a 16 ft john boat(a flat bottom outboard boat) back the trailer and a fairly new Pickup with a utility body with lots of doors and compartments until the rear wheels of the truck were completely submerged in sea water. About 1/2 of the compartments were full of water, all the stuff in them was wet, the rear brakes were soaked, The axle might have picked up some salt water. If it had been my truck I would have done him serious bodily harm. Dave

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Posted by Trevor Boicey on 11/17/2008, 15:25:43, in reply to "Re: Launching boats with Deeper Drafts"

I launched my C&C 27 at normal boat ramp a few times. That's a boat with a tall fin keel and around 5000 lbs. Launching from the trailer just saves money and time though, you still need a crane to get it back out. You could never line it up traditionally to haul it out with a trailer. The point of the fin keel has to be properly placed...

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Posted by Mike Higgins on 11/17/2008, 20:09:16, in reply to "Re: Launching boats with Deeper Drafts"

My brother routinely launches his Bullseye from ramps. This is a fixed keel sloop with the same hull as the legendary Herreshoff 12 1/2 so the hull is deep with at least a 3 foot draft. The trick is based on a length of rope and a good pair of wheel chocks. He backs until the trailer wheels are touching the water. He then blocks the trailer wheels with the chocks, removes the trailer from the hitch, ties one end of the line to the tongue, and wraps the other end around the hitch. The chocks are then removed and the trailer is "backed" into the water by letting out line until the hull is afloat. This may sound complicated; however, with a little practice it is only slightly more time consuming than a typical trailer launch. Of course, you need to have a good swivel jack stand with a well oiled caster.

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Posted by Joe on 11/19/2008, 5:44:40, in reply to "Re: Launching boats with Deeper Drafts"

We launch our Rhodes 22 from our trailer. The trailer has a 10 foot extension that slides in and out. It takes about 5 to 10 minutes to unhitch, extend, re-hitch. It makes launching and retrieving a breeze. The trailer has some 'guide' bunks that can be used with the centerboard to help guide the boat onto the trailer. I've always hopped in the water and walked the boat onto the trailer, but I know people who have driven the boat on the trailer like the bass boat boys do. The Rhodes 22 is about 3000 lbs, draft board up is 20", board down about 4'.

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Posted by Sean-Montgomery 23 "Dauntless" on 11/19/2008, 14:57:26, in reply to "Re: Launching boats with Deeper Drafts"

My wife and I routinely ramp launch a Montgomery 23. I have had her all over Southern California as well as the lakes of Arizona. It is not as difficult of a task as some make it out to be. We have a removeable tongue on the trailer. When we launch I completely remove the towing tongue and this keeps the surge brake controller form ever getting dunked. I have a simple 12' tongue extension with it's own hitch I put in place of the towing tongue. It only takes pulling 2 quick pins and uncoupling the brake line (similar to an air line chuck fitting) to switch out the tongues. When not in use the towing tongue is stored on along the frame of the trialer. This is built of thick walled steel and is heavy, but needs to be so it doesn't flex from the tongue weight. I can do it myself and have on many occasions but it is easier with 2 people. As for time, well yes it does take a little more time, but you are going to find as the boat size goes up, so does the set-up time. That's the downside of upsizing and it's been discussed here at length. The smaller the boat the easier the setup and often that means more use. I love my Monty 23 but we don't launch her for an afternoon of sailing and then plan on pulling her out again the same day. Not the case with a 17, though. As with any time you launch you should check the ramp before you back down to make sure you aren't going to drop off, but it's raely a problem, at least in my experience, and I would think that I an backing substantially further than you will have to with any of the boats you mentioned. We have been doing this for over three years now. I have had experiences with strap launching as described above. While it is necessary to do that for a Deep fin keel boat, you shouldn't have to do that for any of the boats you are talking about. The trade off with the strap is you can launch and retrieve much deeper, but the loss of a rigid connection with the trailer brings on its own headaches and safety issues. Ever see a Yamaha 25 do a wheelie?? It's not a pretty thing. Ask my Buddy Scott! Good luck Sean M23 "Dauntless" www.havasumontgomerys.piczo.com

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Posted by Michel on 11/20/2008, 13:57:32, in reply to "Re: Launching boats with Deeper Drafts"

This is impressive. I understand you will not launch that big boat for a few hours of sailing but, I can see that for a nice weekend.

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Posted by Justin Terrell on 6/28/2009, 10:03:35, in reply to "Launching boats with Deeper Drafts"

I'm now considering a Montgomery 15 or Com-Pac Legacy, myself. For these two specifically, would a tongue extender, with their stock trailers, be the exception or the rule for launch/retrieving from most common ramps? I have a Mazda B3000 RWD (Ford Ranger) with 15" wheels, if that helps. Thanks!

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Posted by Dave Laux on 6/28/2009, 10:19:26, in reply to "Re: Launching boats with Deeper Drafts"

If your trailer is set up correctly you should need nothing additional. I just finished fixing a trailer for a Flika, 3 1/2 foot draft, and it could be launched and retrieved with the truck and trailer attached normally. Dave

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Posted by dave scobie on 6/28/2009, 22:47:20, in reply to "Re: Launching boats with Deeper Drafts"

there are a lot of variables that make for launching a boat. the trailer's tongue length is one; angle of ramp another; and then the tide/water height the third. my M15's trailer was a 'long neck'. this was a rare trailer model. most M15's trailers, including the current pacific trailers, are about two-to-three feet shorter. i liked the long trailer (boat towed very well); and i never found a ramp where i couldn't launch . there are some M15 owners that do get a hitch extender because of their local ramp situations. now my M17 sits two feet higher in the trailer and the trailer is only two feel longer than the M15's. i have a 3' tongue extension; and must keep an eye on the tide and ramp angle. my tow vehicle is an '05 ford ranger 4x4 and have once been very close to launching the truck. FYI: you can extend a hitch using some anchor rode tied to the trailer and to the trailer hitch ball. you get the boat just to the water, chock the trailer wheels, and put down the trailer tongue wheel. tie the rode to the trailer, loop the rode around the hitch ball (like a pully) and slowly inch the boat further into the water. once the boat floats tie off the rode to the hitch pull the trailer out of the water using the truck. once the trailer is just out of the water reconnect to the truck. i've seen this done, but never attempted on my own boat. for both the M15 and M17 you need less water to retreive. the trailer crank can pull the boat onto the trailer in about 1-ish foot less of water than needed to launch. dave scobie M17 #375 - SWEET PEA

Link: visit SWEET PEA's www-site

Posted by Dave Laux on 6/29/2009, 4:12:12, in reply to "Re: M15 trailer"

If you fit your trailer with rollers rather than bunks to support the hull you should be able to launch boats like these without putting the trailer axle in the water let alone the truck. Dave

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Posted by dave scobie on 6/29/2009, 8:05:24, in reply to "Re: M15 trailer"

yes rollers can help ... but you must be careful not to cause a pressure point and damage the hull. just putting a few rollers on top of SWEET PEA's trailer bunk board 'posts' would not be good - one would need to buy/build bunk boards that have intigrated rollers in order to spread out the boat weight. keep in mind the boards to bow significantly as they conform to the boat hull. NOTE: the M15 is 1000# lighter than the M17 and the boards do not bow near as much. i could in many cases if the boat was 'almost' afloat push my M15 off the trailer. NO WAY i can do this with the M17. Mboats were/are delivered with different trailers and how the boat is supported differs. the trail-rite trailers the bunks support the boat and little weight sits on the keel trunk (note that there is only a single roller in above picture). those with pacific trailers the weight is both on the keel and the bunks. dave scobie M17 #375 - SWEET PEA visit SWEET PEA's www-site: http://www.m17-375.webs.com

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Posted by Justin Terrell on 6/29/2009, 12:59:26, in reply to "Re: Launching boats with Deeper Drafts"

Thanks for the advice, Daves.

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Posted by Dave Laux on 6/30/2009, 4:21:04, in reply to "Re: Launching boats with Deeper Drafts"

If I were going to look for a small boat I would consider the lack of a trailer to be a plus. Old trailers can be a mess. Also new ones with the Easy Loader type rollers, groups of four to eight rollers in four spots under the boat are so much eaier to use and deal with than bunk boards which are cheap but subject to a lot of troubles. Dave

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Posted by Phil McLean on 7/26/2009, 7:57:58, in reply to "Re: Launching boats with Deeper Drafts"

Modifying bunk boards with teflon bunk slides has made a big difference in launching and retrieving my Norseboat... admittedly much smaller and shallower draft than those boats discussed in this thread. Nonetheless, minimizing friction means that I no longer submerge the trailer wheels before launching or retrieving with ease. I just trust that the boat will slide onto or from the trailer despite what appears to be an impossible angle. I don't attempt to "float" the boat on or off, I crank it on, or give a shove to start it off. Be sure to keep the boat attached to the trailer until you want it to go into the water... many stories describe boats "launched" prematurely!

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Posted by marilyn on 7/26/2009, 22:40:39, in reply to "Re: Launching boats with Deeper Drafts"

What are teflon bunk boards? and where would a person buy them. Sounds very helpful. Thanks for any info.

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Posted by Phil McLean on 7/27/2009, 6:09:08, in reply to "Re: Launching boats with Deeper Drafts"

Lots of places carry bunk slicks, or slides. Try http://www.surfixinc.com/surfix_trailer_bunkslides.html or Cabela's (a sporting goods store). I got mine at (where else?) West Marine. Search under "Trailer Glyde Slicks".