Posted by Gary NC z8a on 11/10/2009, 10:26 am
75.110.151.131

The American Holly, Sabal Palmetto, Sabal minor and Dogwood in the photo above are all native to eastern NC. The trouble is in many developments and cities two of them are not welcome. But plants from other countries such as Crape Myrtle, Chinese Camellia, Japanese Maples, and many others are used everywhere. I have worked for over 30 years to change the opposition to palms. Many opened minded folks have embraced the palms for the wonderful natives plants they are but every day I realize I have a ways to go. Gary NC z8a Growing palms commercially in the central coastal plain of NC since the late 70's. http://www.garysnursery.com

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Posted by Jim Wilmington DE 7a on 11/10/2009, 12:01 pm, in reply to "NC Natives and Discrimination"
146.145.80.71

Gary, I know this was recently part of another thread, but I think you do well to begin a new thread with it. Like I said before, I don't get it. It's not like every development or community in North Carolina (or Virginia Beach, as with the prior thread) is over-infested, over-saturated with palms! Really, until you get to Florida, you almost have to know where to go to find any number of palms. Driving to Florida from PA years ago, I could count all the palms I saw and not run out of fingers until I hit the Florida Welcome Center. It's not like there are too many in the Carolinas or Virginia. Then there's just the pure hatred of palms. I don't understand it. Perhaps no other tree type on earth has been the subject of art -- serious and pop culture art -- and photography more than palms. And, images of palms are used to advertize hotels (even hotels at beaches in New Jersey!), beach destinations, and even entire States! And let's not forget, South Carolina has a palm tree on its license plates! It seems that what is beloved by many will also be "behated" by at least some. Sadly... I think it takes a cold person to dislike palm trees. Whenever I see one, I smile. If not outwardly, at least inside. Jim, Wilmington, DE, 7a Last 30 Years Avg. Winter Low: 5.27F Last 10 Years Avg. Winter Low: 8.6F Favorite Palms: Species: Phoenix Canariensis / Genus: Sabal Other Loves: History, Music, Baseball

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Posted by Joe K swnj7a on 11/10/2009, 12:08 pm, in reply to "NC Natives and Discrimination"
72.82.166.151

I think that the native part is confusing to many. Assuming that palms aren't native they say only native plants should be used when many beloved plants to them are also not native while several palms are native. But this palm "discrimination" is pretty funny! I can't figure out who it is and why they do it, and here of course its not an issue but maybe some people in places think that their areas will turn into a tourist trap looking area and they want to resist that look and the type of people it would attract? I don't really know, but I'm planting as many palms as I can and nobody is complaining and if they were I'd create a special department to hear them. NOT!!! USDA zone 7a - Southwest New Jersey Triple Oaks Nursery & Herb Garden - http://www.tripleoaks.com/ Forum: http://members5.boardhost.com/tripleoaks/

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Posted by Jim Wilmington DE 7a on 11/10/2009, 12:37 pm, in reply to "Re: NC Natives and Discrimination"
146.145.80.71

> I'm planting as many palms as I can and nobody is complaining and if they were I'd create a special department to hear them. NOT!!! < Joe, you've said a lot of amusing things over the years, but I think this is the funniest! Good job! Jim, Wilmington, DE, 7a Last 30 Years Avg. Winter Low: 5.27F Last 10 Years Avg. Winter Low: 8.6F Favorite Palms: Species: Phoenix Canariensis / Genus: Sabal Other Loves: History, Music, Baseball

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Posted by Jim K NJ z7a on 11/10/2009, 12:49 pm, in reply to "NC Natives and Discrimination"
162.111.195.14

Gary, the pictures you've been posting over the last few days are really, really pretty. Thanks for posting. I also can't get over how similar some of the scenes look to places in South Jersey. That shot of the mill on the lake is a dead ringer for an old grist mill in on Batsto Lake in South Jersey. I like that American Holly in the picture on this thread. They really are beautiful trees and grow like weeds around South Jersey. I have a huge one in my backyard that was completely overgrown when we moved in. I limbed it up, cleared out a bunch of weeds growing around its trunk, and then mulched around its base. It's really standing out right now in all of its green glory and bright red berries as all of the deciduous trees start are dropping their leaves quickly.

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Posted by John Alabaster AL-7b on 11/10/2009, 12:58 pm, in reply to "NC Natives and Discrimination"
68.17.42.125

http://likethedew.com/2009/05/04/palm-tree-paranoi Among all the palm haters out there I'm sure there are those that share this guy's opinions, and then there are those who just feel that palms belong in Florida & California and truly resent attempts to make landscapes anywhere else look like Florida & California. john Alabaster, AL - approx 15 miles south of Birmingham formerly "john from Trussville"

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Posted by Jim Wilmington DE 7a on 11/10/2009, 1:48 pm, in reply to "Read this guy's rant....."
146.145.80.71 | Message modified by user Jim Wilmington DE 7a 11/10/2009, 1:48 pm

> there are those who just feel that palms belong in Florida & California and truly resent attempts to make landscapes anywhere else look like Florida & California. < Not that there's anything wrong with Delaware (or its native flora), but I want my yard to look a little like Southeast North Carolina! Why should that be a sin? Are we a free society or not? How does my growing a nice, well-maintained set of palm trees in my "northern" garden encroach on someone else's rights? Live and let live, right? Jim, Wilmington, DE, 7a Last 30 Years Avg. Winter Low: 5.27F Last 10 Years Avg. Winter Low: 8.6F Favorite Palms: Species: Phoenix Canariensis / Genus: Sabal Other Loves: History, Music, Baseball

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Posted by John Alabaster AL-7b on 11/10/2009, 2:37 pm, in reply to "Re: Read this guy's rant....."
68.17.42.125

I agree with you 100% Jim, but I've been told by nursery owners here in B'ham that their customers have questioned why they are selling palms. And I've personally heard more than one person say "palms don't belong here". john Alabaster, AL - approx 15 miles south of Birmingham formerly "john from Trussville"

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Posted by Jim Wilmington DE 7a on 11/10/2009, 3:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Read this guy's rant....."
146.145.80.71

> I agree with you 100% Jim, but I've been told by nursery owners here in B'ham that their customers have questioned why they are selling palms. And I've personally heard more than one person say "palms don't belong here". < John, I know I'm preaching to the choir on this, but if palm trees don't belong in Alabama (a State where a couple of palms ARE native, by the way), then white, black, Asian and Hispanic humans don't belong there either. I mean, if we're gonna play that game, let's take it all the way out. Jim, Wilmington, DE, 7a Last 30 Years Avg. Winter Low: 5.27F Last 10 Years Avg. Winter Low: 8.6F Favorite Palms: Species: Phoenix Canariensis / Genus: Sabal Other Loves: History, Music, Baseball

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Posted by Roger Olympia WA on 11/10/2009, 4:36 pm, in reply to "NC Natives and Discrimination"
67.183.185.215 | Message modified by user Roger Olympia WA 11/10/2009, 4:38 pm

I have had problems with my neighbor across the street a few years ago. So what I did was I gave away 15 trachy's all up and down the street and I told them if they plant them in their front yard it was free! It worked and some of the early ones have 5' of trunk. So now I am surrounded by palm trees when I look out the widow. I will not let someone dictate what I can grow in my own garden....Don't judge me and I won't judge you! Great pictures Gary, love all your native plants. Z8b, sunset 5 55" rainy in fall/winter. Summer high 2009 104F / 40C 2010 garden bromeliads and desert plants Favorite band this fall 'silversun pickups' Favorite news website: Joe my God

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Posted by Ray 8a-9a on 11/10/2009, 4:55 pm, in reply to "Re: Read this guy's rant....."
205.188.117.12

The several varieties in our yard have poked me, stabbed me, rained nasty debris into my eyes and routinely mocked me by littering the yard with their messes on a weekly basis. That article is full of exaggeration and, what appears to be intentional falsehoods. I would ask this fellow one question; why don't you take a chainsaw to every palm in your yard, have the stumps ground up and replace them with the trees of your choice? I also think that some of the people that say they don't like palms are just jealous that they don't have any and are either too lazy, or otherwise unable to grow them for theirself. Seems to me that this fellow, like some others, has a burr under his saddle which is caused by something other than palm trees. Dual Residency: Mt. Olive, AL - North central Alabama, near Birmingham. Panama City Beach, FL - Coastal, NW Florida Panhandle.

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Posted by Roger Olympia WA on 11/10/2009, 6:59 pm, in reply to "Read this guy's rant....."
67.183.185.215

What a Big whiner, if you don't like palms don't grow them and there are tons of regular trees that have thorn too. Story is only one sighted. Z8b, sunset 5 55" rainy in fall/winter. Summer high 2009 104F / 40C 2010 garden bromeliads and desert plants Favorite band this fall 'silversun pickups' Favorite news website: Joe my God

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Posted by Steve Southeast NC on 11/10/2009, 7:21 pm, in reply to "NC Natives and Discrimination"
71.0.119.105

Gary, Its just crazy that most of the developers use exotics and shun palms when at least 2 are native to NC. around the south coast, palms, especially minors can be seen in alot of older landscapes. I find it odd that most people dont think we have any native palms. On another note, have you ever heard of any needles in Brunswick county. I have been told by more than one person and read once years ago that there were some around the Waccamaw River/swamp or Green swamp. Steve

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Posted by Alex-Atlanta on 11/10/2009, 8:36 pm, in reply to "NC Natives and Discrimination"
24.98.254.48

There's actually a growing preference for natives. They're naturally more hardy and disease resistant in most cases (Flowering Dogwood being an unfortunate exception). Palms are probably not as "hot" in regions where they're taken for granted. Here in Atlanta, they're the darling of both commercial and residential landscapers. Alex Woollcott Atlanta, GA (Buckhead area inside city) Low zone 8a (09 winter low - 12 degrees F) Current obsession: citrus, bamboo, eucs Other passions: birding, surfing, kayaking

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Posted by Joe Saltspring Island BC on 11/10/2009, 10:41 pm, in reply to "NC Natives and Discrimination"
66.183.64.51

I love the looks of palms in among trees that turn colour. Great pic. Cheers, Joe Southern Gulf Islands, zone 8b/9a Dry Springs & Summers months and mild wet winters.Annual precip. approx. 30" inches, Extreme winter min. temps. usually not below 20 F.

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Posted by Jeff zone 8 NC on 11/10/2009, 10:41 pm, in reply to "NC Natives and Discrimination"
71.74.29.122

Gary, you have made a much bigger impact with your palm promotion efforts than you realize. I remember when central North Carolina was almost a palm free zone. Now palms pop up every where I travel around the state (at least in central and eastern N.C.). Here on the coast a nursey owner that does not sell palms is a fool. They account for a large portion of their sales. And that has extended inland steadily over the years. Still I know what you mean. There are palm haters here too even though they are way outnumbered. So keep up the good work. You have already gotten past the hardest part.

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Posted by Jeff zone 8 NC on 11/10/2009, 10:43 pm, in reply to "Re: NC Natives and Discrimination"
71.74.29.122

Steve, sounds like a great winter hunt to me.

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Posted by Joe Saltspring Island BC on 11/10/2009, 10:49 pm, in reply to "Read this guy's rant....."
66.183.64.51

I get so pi##ed off when I read any rant about palms and how they don't belong in certain areas. We get those same kind of rants up this way as well and I always respond with a rant right back at the person who wrote it. A few years ago they were going to line a street in a Nanaimo neighborhood with mature T.fortunei. I guess one neighbor decided to get a petition going to stop the planting. He stated that Palms don't belong in our climate and the city should be planting more flowering plum and cherry trees. Well perhaps he should have done his homework before shooting his mouth off, since those trees are native to Asia. So really those trees should have no business growing here either if the palms aren't permitted too. There really are very few native plants in the public landscape, and when it boils right down to it, most of us were introduced too! I say plant more palms and if certain people are opposed to it, then maybe they ought to move to the Arctic where they belong! Cheers, Joe Southern Gulf Islands, zone 8b/9a Dry Springs & Summers months and mild wet winters.Annual precip. approx. 30" inches, Extreme winter min. temps. usually not below 20 F.

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Posted by Steve in N Alabama z7b on 11/10/2009, 11:27 pm, in reply to "Read this guy's rant....."
66.32.123.130 | Message modified by user Steve in N Alabama z7b 11/10/2009, 11:27 pm

Maybe this narrow minded fool who is now living in the land of palm trees ought to just pour asphalt over his front and back yard or better yet go back to Mississippi to play with his "neat mess" of oak and pecan nuts and leaves.

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Posted by Joe Saltspring Island BC on 11/11/2009, 2:39 am, in reply to "Re: Read this guy's rant....."
66.183.64.51

I agree with you 100%. Some people are such whiners! Southern Gulf Islands, zone 8b/9a Dry Springs & Summers months and mild wet winters.Annual precip. approx. 30" inches, Extreme winter min. temps. usually not below 20 F.

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Posted by Tom St Marys GA on 11/11/2009, 6:20 am, in reply to "Re: Read this guy's rant....."
69.131.167.38

Either he hasn't lived in Mississippi for a LONG time and his memories are colored by nostalgia, or he has never raked leaves -- especially pecans (and hickories). Next to Southern magnolia, pecans have to be the messiest trees around. Their limbs are weak, they drip sap all summer, and in the fall, the nuts and hulls drop along with the leaflets and petioles. The petioles are guaranteed to try the patience of anyone determined enough to rake them. This is not a rant against pecans. I love them. I'm just not under any illusions about them.

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Posted by Alex-Atlanta 7b on 11/11/2009, 10:05 am, in reply to "Re: Pecans"
208.5.44.21

They also suffer yearly from bagworms.

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Posted by Joe Saltspring Island BC on 11/11/2009, 11:44 am, in reply to "Read this guy's rant....."
66.183.64.51

I wrote a response to that article and the guy who wrote it e-mailed me, lol. I made sure to tell him to appreciate all of the palm trees that grow in his area. Southern Gulf Islands, zone 8b/9a Dry Springs & Summers months and mild wet winters.Annual precip. approx. 30" inches, Extreme winter min. temps. usually not below 20 F.

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Posted by Dennis-SC on 11/11/2009, 1:59 pm, in reply to "NC Natives and Discrimination"
67.197.192.54 | Message modified by user Dennis-SC 11/11/2009, 2:01 pm

I think what happens is most people who grow up around palms ( native ) do not care for them like we do here. Example: My wife grew up in Southern CA.,and all the yards had palm trees, and she kinda disliked them... NOW she lives in a place with not many palm trees and she loves the look here. Gary keep up the great work. Hard work always pays off Knowledge comes, but wisdom lingers. Dennis-SC Lancaster SC http://www.majesticpalmtrees.com

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Posted by Zac in Texas on 11/11/2009, 3:59 pm, in reply to "Read this guy's rant....."
216.183.37.142

The article is full of mis-information. Though I giggled when I read about him trying to dodge the spathe from the queen. And I feel his pain when working with Phoenix. I bet he hates his Granny's Old Fashioned Coconut Cake or Date bars? Zac Zac in Texas- Lower Rio Grande Valley. South Texas Formerly Zac in NC.

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Posted by Rick7BDE on 11/11/2009, 4:00 pm, in reply to "NC Natives and Discrimination"
173.22.162.59 | Message modified by user Rick7BDE 11/11/2009, 4:02 pm

Gary Hang in there, the native plant trend will be all over soon. I feel the same way, believe me, Delaware natives aren't that exciting. As I tell most people who wnat to plant dogwoods in full sun here, you might as well plant a palm, they have better success rate. I get tired of this debate, just like North Carolina, there is piedmont and coastal plain. Most people want "natives: that dont even grow in natural areas here: coneflower, black eyed susans, etc... For perennials there fine, but dont call them native to this area...

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