Posted by manuel
on 11/10/2009, 21:47:58, in reply to "Spanish nobiliary system"
83.37.160.217
--Previous Message--
: I don't really understand how the spanish
: nobiliary system works exactly.
:
: I know one has always to apply, f.i. when
: the Duchess of Alba will die, her elder son
: must apply or else he won't be allow to use
: the title.
: There is no automatic succession, right ?
Right. If nobody applies within a year after the death of the previous holder, the title is "dormant" and has to be rehabilitated, not inherited.
:
: If the heir does not apply, can the
: next-in-line apply ?
Yes. Or anybody descending from the first holder. That's why, when one applies, it is announced in the BOE, so that another heir with better rights can apply for it.
:
: Take the Duchy of Franco.
Well, the Duchy of Franco does not exist. What exists is the Dukedom of Franco. Franco is not territory, but a name.
:
: Carmen says she won't apply. Can LA apply
: when his grand-mother dies or must he wait
: that his own mother dies ?
Carmen did not say that. She only talked about an agreement, but gave no details. LA can apply if his mother does not and his uncle does. He has better rights than Francis.
: The fact that Carmen won't apply at her
: mother's death does not mean she would not
: decide to apply in 5 or 10 years.
Yes, but she had to go before the Courts. All letters of succession have the clause "sin perjuicio de tercero con mejor derecho". Only after 40 years the succession is firm and cannot be challenged.
:
: Either the title remains dormant or he/she
: who is second in line and had appied and got
: the title must give it up ?
:
: Are there any deadlines for applying ?
As I said, if nobody applies within a year, the title is "dormant". If nobody applies in 40 years, the title is extinct. Since a RD published in 1988, titles cannot be rehabilitated after 40 years.
:
: --Previous Message--
: Jose, that's why I posted that I do not know
: how this "agreement" can be
: legally implemented.
: A solution would be that Francis ceded the
: title of Marchess of Villaverde to Carmen.
: That's possible in Spanish law, although the
: title would revert to the legitimate line
: (Francis's) after Carmen's death.
: Carmen Polo wanted her granson to succeed
: her. So, I suppose Carmen Franco did not
: apply for it. As you know, in the Spanish
: nobiliary system, the heir has to apply
: before the Ministry of Justice. I only
: Francis applied, he got the title, because
: nobody with better rights presented the
: application. That is perfectly legal in the
: Spanish system.
:
: --Previous Message--
: If there is no dispute in relation to the
: Villaverde title, as Francisco succeeded
: before the new law, how could Carmen make an
: arrangement with her brother to become the
: next Marchioness ?
:
: If Francisco would renounce the title,
: wouldn't it have to be in favour of his
: children ?
:
: Or is there any spanish entity (or may be
: the King) who could approve the transmission
: between brother and sister ?
:
: What about the señorio de Meirás ?
: I think Francisco is the present señor .
: How could Carmen Pollo pass it to her
: grandson (if my assumption is correct) ?
: Did Carmen Franco renounce to that title ?
:
: --Previous Message--
: LA's mother was interviewed yesterday in a
: gossip programme on TV (it has been reported
: that she has been paid 90.000 €). She was
: asked about the relationship with her
: brother, Francisco, and about a possible
: fight in the future for the Dukedom of
: Franco. She said that they have discussed
: about it and have reached an agreement: she
: will not apply for the succession to the
: Dukedom of Franco and she will become
: Marchioness of Villaverde, her father's
: title.
: Anyway, I do not see how this can be legally
: done. I suppose she will not apply for the
: Dukedom and her brother will cede her the
: Villaverde title. He is presently the
: Marchess of Villaverde. He succeeded before
: the new law, in force since 2005. So, she
: cannot challenge the succession.
: If Carmen does not apply for the Dukedom of
: Franco, I suppose LA could claim it before
: the courts after his mother's death.
: Anyway, an interesting revelation.
: She was also asked about the possibility of
: becoming the mother of the King of France
: and she said that her son will never become
: King of France. Well, this is no news.
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
Message Thread:
« Back to thread