Posted by Johan on 9/11/2011, 10:45:50, in reply to "Re: equal treatment"
User logged in as Johan
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Well men are taking a bigger hands-on interest in raising their children these days so a Royal husband doing that won't be seen as odd.
In previous generations female spouses did not have a very prominent public role other than the mother of the heirs, that has changed. Most female consorts have a very public role in various fields of interest. Young male royals do too so the husband of a queen can do the same. What is fitting depends on the individual the country and the time. In the 1950's Juliana's consort was actively involved with getting international trade contracts to help rebuild the nation. In those days it was seen as proper and good. However afterwards people changed their mind as it had also included him being involved in what we Dutch consider bribes and unethical behaviour (in other cultures the same thing is seen in another light).
The result was that his successor Claus was kept under a much tighter reign. Unneeded as Claus was a trained diplomat and knew the limits of his position much better than his father-in-law. So his sons and daughters-in-law as well as his brother-in-law are now given much more freedom in their daily activities and work.
Yes the focus on the appearance is mainly on the royal ladies but stylish, goodlooking men do get mentioned though i don't think it's very important. Personally i don't think princesses are supposed to be clothes-horses who only get mentioned because they were designer a or b.
My point being that with less gender dominated roles a male consort of today isn't in the same socially akward position as male consorts in the past.
--Previous Message--
: Nice in theory but not in practice.
:
: Do you really believe the public would
: accept a prince consort who trailed behind
: his wife while the press got hugely excited
: about his fashion sense? Or looked after
: their babies while she went off to public
: events?
:
: Equally do you believe that a prince consort
: who did pursue his existing career could do
: so without it reflecting on his wife -
: perhaps as head of an investment bank that
: was dealing in sub-prime mortgages or
: betting against the national currency, or
: perhaps as a lawyer who was directly
: challenging the government of the day, or as
: an industrialist whose company was found to
: have broken some regulations?
:
: Or perhaps an employee of a big company who
: was suddenly promoted to the board and was
: then accused of being promoted because of
: his position.
:
: None of the female spouses of any of the
: present heirs to European thrones have any
: kind of meaningful occupation other than
: "supporting their spouse" and
: looking elegant, and of course supporting
: various charities.
:
: The criticism already meted out to the Crown
: princess of Sweden' spouse has made it clear
: that even in tolerant Sweden, the public
: thinks that running a gym is not an
: occupation worthy of the husband of the
: future Queen. Can you imagine the public
: reaction if, say, the Duchess of Cambridge
: was pursuing a career as a personal trainer?
:
: I know perfectly well that is the
: politically correct view to maintain that
: there is no and should be no perceivable
: difference between the expectations of men
: and women. However this is not only proved
: to be fallacious by the evidence of an
: overwhelming majority of women who
: consistently retire from the jobs market
: earlier than men, but more to the point here
: is the fact that nowhere is it expected that
: the a future queen consort should be out in
: the jobs market trying to make an
: independent career. Do you believe the
: Princess of Asturias could have continued
: her career as a TV journalist? Of course
: not, it woudl have been unacceptable. But i
: due course her daughter may become Queen and
: it will be equally unlikely that her husband
: could be a reporter on the TV or run a
: company, or do anything other than pursue a
: military career.
:
: Or simply stay at home and live off the
: state benefits that royal families receive.
: How would the public respond to that?
:
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: I think your fear is unfounded. Most
: European
: nations are seeing the roles of men and
: women less preset by gender and more fluid.
: Men who raise their children while the
: mother is the main breadwinner are still a
: minority, but they are growing in numbers.
: Many women are now earn as much as their
: husband and with more girls graduating from
: higher education than boys that trend will
: continue.
: The male consorts of the 20th century had
: the thoughest time. They had to find a way
: to maintain their masculinity without
: overpowering their reigning spouse. These
: days roles are different.
: As for France i think they would be
: seriously considering to accept gender
: neutral succession if they had not
: introduced it allready if the monarchy had
: still existed.
: In Germany that would certainly have been
: the case.
:
: --Previous Message--
: If France had returned to a monarchy in 1873
: it might well have had another revolution in
: 1905. But if it had survived, I rather doubt
: there would be a change. French law on names
: is still very strict.
:
: The great difficulty in the role of Queen's
: regnant in the future is their choice of
: husband. The role of the wives of the heirs
: to Norway, the UK, Netherlands, and Belgium
: is so much easier than that of the husband
: of the Crown princess of Sweden.
:
: We may consider that we have progressed, but
: a man is still expected to work and have
: some kind of career. For the duke of
: Edinburgh as a naval officer it was a very
: clear role and it becamse easy for him to
: take up various public positions and star
: his own charities.
:
: But the Swedish public has already shown a
: certain intolerance towards the activities
: of the husband of the crown princess -
: running a gym is not really the job one
: would expect the husband of the head of
: state to do. if the husband of a future
: Queen is a lawyer, banker or runs any kind
: of business it would be only too easy for
: him to find that he is getting work because
: of who he is rather than his skills and then
: be accused of taking advantage of his
: position. This was the accusation thrown at
: the late Sir Angus Ogilvy, husband of
: Princess Alexandra (of the UK); The Princess
: Royal's husband is a senior naval officer
: but if he had a career in business he and
: his company would be constantly scrutinised.
:
: It is useless to compare the positions of
: past or present sovereigns without noting
: the enormous difficulties faced by the
: husbands of the present and late Queens of
: the Netherlands - Prince Bernhard involved
: in a sordid business scandal and the late
: husband of Queen Beatrix suffering terribly
: from the difficulties of his position.
:
: The Prince Consort of Denmark has had to be
: "protected" several times and I
: doubt very much that a future prince consort
: of any European monarchy would manage to
: escape such scrutiny.
:
: I see the role of the husband of the
: sovereign as by far the greatest challenge
: and potentially de-stabilising factor for
: the European monarchies of the future.
:
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: I do agree that if there ever was a
: restoration in France and Germany there
: probably would be equal succession but I do
: have to wonder if France had remained a
: monarchy all this time if they would be too
: resistant?
:
: --Previous Message--
: If the monarchy were ever returned in France
: and Germany, I beleive they would do it on
: the concept of equal treatment of males and
: females.
: Step by step all monarchies change to this
: concept.
:
: --Previous Message--
: That is what I was thinking. France was
: involved in a huge war in order to prevent
: passage through the female line I have a
: hard time thinking they would embrace equal
: succession.
:
: --Previous Message--
: --Previous Message--
: I tend to agree. The French monarchy seem to
: have had the strongest adherence to the
: Salic tradition.
:
: Well, they once fought a hundred years war
: with the English in order to defend it. If a
: modern French monarchy were to abolish it, I
: suspect the ghosts of Edward III and Henry V
: would appreciate the irony!
:
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