Posted by Guy Stair Sainty
on 26/10/2009, 21:46:33, in reply to "Re: papal titles"
83.154.61.193
Mr Sjostrom may chose patronisngly to disparage what I say but to suggest that I shape my recitation of the facts to conform to whatever are my supposed "biases" is extremely discourteous.
No Papal title granted after 1870 can pass other than to heirs born of legitimate Catholic marriage. That does not mean that descendants of some other form of marriage may not use such titles, but they do so abusively.
However, where (for example) a recipient of a Papal title has had it recgnised as a foreign title in Spain - whereupon rather surprisingly it will pass by Spanish rules - an heir was able to claim the title until 1968, since which time the granting authority must affirm that person is the heir. But of course prior to 1968, the children of civil marriages could not inherit any titles - nowadays the Secretray of State, when confirming a succession to a Papal title (and such confirmations are given today, in the form of a letter), will require proof of descent by Catholic marriage.
In Italy, prior to 1946 however, the recipient of a Papal title whose title had been confirmed in Italy would not need to provide a letter from the Holy See to prove he was the heir - and civil marriage was recgnised and the issue of civil amrriages were able to succeed to titles. Pst 1946 this is no longer the case, since there is no mechanism in Italy for the legal recognition of titles.
The vast majority of titles granted pre 1870 by the Roman Pontiff to scions of Roman families were recognised as Italian titles, and their descent therefore passed according to Italian law, as far as Italy was concerned.
--Previous Message--
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: just to be cautious.
: Guy has some strong biases, which may make
: some of his views less than universally
: accepted.
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: I seem to recall that some papal titles have
: been inherited by heirs other than
: canonically legitimate.... which could be
: exceptional.....
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: --Previous Message--
: Why do you say "Guy's" view?
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