Posted by Cabri
on 14/6/2009, 13:51:54, in reply to "Re: A question of titles"
84.190.199.163
Queen Mary was known as Her Majesty Queen Mary;
Queen Elizabeth was certainly not style "Queen Mum) - that is newpaper language : but HM Queen Elisabeth The Queen Mother.
--Previous Message--
: A dowager Queen is titled (in english) Her
: Majesty Queen HERNAME, Dowagwer Queen of
: HER_HUSBANDS_REALM. She would always be
: styled as HM Queen HERNAME, a territorial
: desingation is not required, but may be used
: if desired
:
: A regnant or consort queen is always styled
: HM The Queen you always include a
: territioral designation outside of her realm
: (numbers are only used for regnants, though
: are not always used in informal contexts) An
: exception may be made for Elizabeth II if
: she is in one of the realms and the
: reference is being made in another of her
: realms (eg, she is still styled in Australia
: as HM The Queen even if the reference is in
: relation to Canada or the UK).
:
: The consorts of Geroges V & VI were both
: officially titled as HM The Dowager Queen.
: Mary used her name in her formal styling,
: Elizabeth used the informal title of Queen
: Mum to distinguise between herself as Queen
: Elizabeth and her daughter who is also Queen
: Elizabeth
:
: --Previous Message--
: To clarify the subject of titles for dowager
: queens, I wanted to ask: just what exactly
: is the FORMAL title for the widow of a king
: (granted that there may be slight variations
: from country to country)?
:
: Correct me if I'm mistaken, but is the full,
: formal style and title of the widow of
: Belgium's King Baudouin "Her Majesty
: Fabiola, Dowager Queen of the
: Belgians"? If so, I would imagine
: shortened (if still formal) variations to be
: "Her Majesty Dowager Queen
: Fabiola" (in a national context) or
: "Dowager Queen Fabiola of the
: Belgians" (in an international
: context).
:
: However, I believe she is known mainly by
: her informal titles -- i.e. "Her
: Majesty Queen Fabiola" (within Belgium)
: and "Queen Fabiola of the
: Belgians" (outside Belgium).
:
: At first, I thought that perhaps the widow
: of a king might be known as "Her
: Majesty the Dowager Queen" (nationally)
: or "The Dowager Queen of __"
: (internationally). The trouble with this
: title, however, lies in the fact that one
: can theoretically have two dowager queens
: living -- as was the case in the UK,
: 1952-1953. As such, there would be too much
: ambiguity in such a title -- even with
: attempts to specify by the use of an article
: ("the").
:
: Speaking of the UK, let me get straight the
: progressive styles and titles of King
: William IV's wife: I believe she was, in
: succession, "HH Princess Adelheid of
: Saxe-Meiningent" (from her birth in
: 1792 to her marriage in 1818; or perhaps she
: was only a HSH early on?), "HRH The
: Duchess of Clarence" (between her
: marriage in 1818 to her husband's accession
: to the British throne in 1830), "HM The
: Queen", nationally, and "The Queen
: of the UK", internationally (during the
: years of her husband's reign), and "HM
: Adelaide, Dowager Queen of the UK"
: (from her husband's death in 1837 to her own
: in 1845). Is all this correct?
:
: I didn't wish to sound presumptuous, but I
: wanted to create distinctions for a queen's
: style and title, from a national and
: international perspective. It only stands
: to reason, after all, that the international
: community cannot be expected to
: automatically understand just who exactly is
: being referred to, when "The
: Queen" is mentioned. Also, there is no
: obligation to be especially reverential by
: using the style "Majesty", when
: mentioning a foreign queen (that being said,
: one is obliged out of courtesy to use this
: in the context of a personal meeting or
: greeting -- even if the queen in question is
: not your own. That is: if I came face to
: face with the Spanish queen, then although
: I'm not a Spaniard myself, I would be
: obliged to call her "Your Majesty"
: -- although not to go so far as to curtsy).
:
: Conversely, in a national setting, it really
: makes no sense to refer to Sofia as
: "The Queen of Spain". I don't
: consider it pretentious for a Spaniard to
: assume that a fellow Spaniard knows whom he
: is referring to, when mentioning "Her
: Majesty the Queen" -- even in the
: context of distinguishing her from another
: queen (say during a state visit), referred
: to as "The Queen of Sweden."
:
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