Posted by M.Sjostrom (Sjostrom) on 10/5/2008, 0:10:22, in reply to "Re: are you sure Samuel Sandel is Maria's son"
Link: R S Beatty genealogical collections about the Ramboes
82.181.239.182
some (affectionately cowboy) genealogists, with a lot of dedication to the esteemed Rambo family, have obviously got a good collection from records about how many descendants there at least were of the late Peter Rambo, of New Sweden.
This page
http://members.aol.com/mcemmert/rambo2.txt
includes a listing of children born by Mary Dalbo
(it comes from
http://members.aol.com/rsbeatty/rambo.htm
According to that collection, seemingly based on listings in wills and in churchbooks of the period, Mary Dalbo was a fertile wife of her pastor and gave birth at the pace of one per each two or three years in average.... totalling to ten kids...
Of course there should be some age gap between the eldest and second-youngest, that's to be expected...
Additionally, Samuel Sandel, born in 1724, is nicely among those listed 
MHM-1d. Maria Mattson, born 11 May 1682, married Rev. Andreas Sandel, pastor of Gloria Dei Church, on 22 February 1704. Sandel was born on 30 November 1671 in Hþllnþs parish in Roslagen, Sweden, the son of the local pastor Petrus Sandel and his wife Magdalena
Chytraeus. He was ordained in Uppsala on 18 July 1701 and sent immediately to America as a replacement for Rev. Andreas Rudman, who had requested his recall. Arriving in Philadelphia on 17 March, he was soon installed as minister of Gloria Dei Church and presented his first sermon on Palm Sunday, 29 March 1702. He would serve that church continuously until 7 May 1719, when he closed his church accounts.
Maria Mattson and Andreas Sandel were married at Gloria Dei Church on Tuesday, 22 February 1704, by Rev. Andreas Rudman "in the presence of many people, including Governor Evans." Initially they lived in the church's parsonage located in Passyunk. Later, however, on 25 March 1709, he was granted 126 acres at Passyunk, part of Peter Mattson's former plantation, by his brother-in-law Peter Mattson, Jr. Sandel and his wife sold the rear 41 acres of this to Moses Cock on 9 March 1709/10, but ratained the rest, which was to become their own home plantation until 1719. On 26 March 1719, on the eve of his return to Sweden, Andrew Sandel and Mary his wife sold their home plantation to Anthony Hartley for þ*267.10.
Sandel then returned to Sweden with his wife and five children, and became the pastor at Hedamora church, Kopparberg, Sweden. Maria, his wife, died there on 5 February 1739, Sandel on 11 May 1744.
Andreas Sandel and Maria Mattson had ten children:
MHM-1da. Magdalena Sandel, born 25 December 1704, married in Sweden Dr. John Nordman, 12 September 1735; died 28 January 1764 in Leksand, Dalarna, Sweden.
MHM-1d1. Peter Sandel, born January 1706, died at Passyunk, 21 April 1708, at the age of two years and four months.
MHM-1d2. Peter Sandel, born in 1709, married in Sweden Helena Arhusiander, 4 June 1745; died 6 April 1752 in Stora Skedvi, Sweden.
MHM-1d3. Anders Sandel, born 28 July 1711, died 13 August 1711, aged two weeks and two days.
MHM-1d4. Anders Sandel, born in 1713, died 2 May 1720 in Hedemora, Sweden.
MHM-1d5. John Sandel, born c. 1715, died in March 1724 in Hedemora, Sweden.
MHM-1d6. Benjamin Sandel, born 11 October 1717, married in Sweden Sarah Christina Lodh, died 22 January 1788 in Sweden.
MHM-1d7. Andreas Sandel, born 19 January 1721 in Hedemora, buried 27 September 1724 in Hedmora.
MHM-1d8. Samuel Sandel, born 14 Dec. 1724 in Hedemora, married in Sweden Catharina Elisabet Brandt, 20 November 1753, died 23 March 1784 in Stockholm, Sweden.
MHM-1d9. Magnus Sandel, born and died in Hedemora in infancy.
--Previous Message--
:
: ---
:
: Maternal filiation of Samuel Sandel (born 14
: Dec 1724 at Hedemora):
: Elgenstierna, vol VII, sub: Sandels, says
: so. According to that -admittedly,
: secondary- source, Samuel was son of Mary
: (Maria) Dahlbo, herself according to the
: same source, being born at Mantua Creek in
: America...
:
: Elgenstierna generally received its details
: from what the newly ennobled guy had
: reported to the Riddarhuset about his family
: relations when getting formally introduced
: to his peers in the House. Additionally,
: such details may have come to Riddarhuset
: from lutheran parishes relevant to family
: history of the family in question.
:
: I have no reason to suspect that specific
: detail in Elgenstierna, namely, as it is
: probably beyond doubt that Samuel Sandel was
: born as son of 'kyrkoherde' Anders Sandel,
: who according to undisputed record was
: husband of Mary Dahlbo,
: then a son born to the esteemed pastor in
: the lifetime of his wedded wife Mary Dahlbo,
: would practically necessarily be born by
: that very wife. I believe there would be
: some information about a scandal available
: even to us, had the good pastor got a
: recognized son (who later got ennobled, thus
: was a prominent citizen), with same surname
: no less, by some other woman than his
: living, breathing wife.
:
: As to Mary Dahlbo's undeniably high age at
: the birth of Samuel, it was still only
: something like 42 years, thus biologically
: possible to get pregnant and give birth.
: And actually not so rare in those days: if a
: woman got started in giving births, and her
: husband survived and was not incapable, then
: fairly often, they continued to have a birth
: every now and then until the wife turned
: something like 45. You see, no effective
: contraceptives, and an ideology that
: children are a blessing of god, and the
: couple just, mmmm, 'lived together'...
: sharing a bed...
:
:
:
:
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:
: --Previous Message--
:
: Maria Dahlbo gave birth to a daughter
: Magdalena in 1704. Are you saying that she
: also had a child, Samuel in 1724 when she
: was 42 years old....
