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Re: What was the difference between the Ultimates and the Liberators? Plust other Thoughts (Spoilers

Posted by Martin on 9/5/2007, 6:28 pm, in reply to "Re: What was the difference between the Ultimates and the Liberators? Plust other Thoughts (Spoilers"
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But this is the entire point about the Ultimate Universe! It is supposed to be more true to life than what the mainstream Marvel Universe is! The fact that these so called "heros" have so many flaws is what is most attractive to its readership! The heros in The Ultimate Universe are true to life as well "real" people! \ --Previous Message-- : I felt pretty much the way you did as I read : through the Ultimates 2 storyline (issue by : issue). Most of the characters (with the : exception of Thor) seemed to be working from : the idea that "might makes right" : -- or that the country with the biggest guns : (in this case still the Ultimates) makes the : rules. : : I'm not even sure that I admire the : Ultimates' decision to break off from the : government -- the fact that they're being : supported by Stark Enterprises now just : seems to reinforce the idea that corporate : America controls all. : : Still, as long as there's Thor I suppose : there's hope... : : --Previous Message-- : I finally got a chance to read Ultimates 2 : #13 : today. I has previously read reviews online : and heard other peoples’ opinions, but I : honestly tried to read it with an open mind. : While at first glance it appeared awesome, : upon stepping back I was left very : disappointed. One review I remember reading : stated Thor was really the sole hero and was : left asking what is the difference between : the Liberators and the Ultimates? At the : end of it I was wondering the same thing. : While I understand heroes need to have flaws : and if taking a realistic approach will not : be perfect, but besides Thor who in the : Ultimates is there left to admire? : : Captain America-The living symbol of : America. : In Ultimates 1 he was accused by some as : being a jingonestic thug. He beat up Banner : after he was no longer the Hulk. He went : solo and used military resources to hunt : down and beat up Hank Pym on his own before : Pym was convicted or anything. These two : instances are somewhat understandable given : the circumstances, and I am sure many people : rooted for Cap upon beating Pym since he is : far worse than his mainstream cousin. : However, in Ultimates 2 this rogueness and : thuggery continued. : In Ultimates 2 upon hearing the possibility : Thor is a traitor he goes to beat him up. : Think about this for a moment. Thor was a : confirmed pacifist who, has Thor himself : pointed out, despised the death penalty. : Unlike Hank Pym there wasn’t even any : evidence at the time that Thor did it only a : possibility. Remember, Cap as of yet did : not know Thor’s “history.” Yet Cap, being : the brilliant tactician he is, decides to go : pick a fight with not only one of the most : powerful beings on the planet, but in a club : full of people who despise Captain America : and support Thor. Later, Cap takes part in : an invasion of another country to further : America’s foreign policy despite assurances : the Ultimates would not be used abroad. : Finally, in the final battle against the : Liberators, despite claiming Americans do : not coldly execute people without a trial, : that is exactly what he does after the : Colonel was already beaten and dishanded. : If he was still a threat and the battle was : still going on I could understand, but the : battle was already over. Throughout this, : what were Cap’s actions but a jingonistic : thug? I know he wasn’t as bad as a true : thug, but truthfully how did he have the : moral high ground? It’s been so long since : they invaded what ever country it was, but : even if you do not factor in that if you : look at Ultimate Captain America what is he : but a person who without regard for the law : beats up people with little to no evidence : simply because he thinks they did something : wrong or have already been defeated? : : Hawkeye-Murdered the Black Widow. : I know most people applauded this action, : and all things considered she probable : deserved it. But isn’t that was the : judicial system is for. She had already : been defeated and did not seem to be much of : a threat. Yet Hawkeye just coldly executed : her. : : Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch-I admit it has : been awhile with them and due to lengthy : times between issues I might have forgotten : something, but last time I checked weren’t : they incestuous twins who believed in : mutant superiority and only helped the : Ultimates due to fear of their former : comrades? : : The Hulk- A cannibalistic monster who is not : misunderstood. I think anything else about : him is fairly obvious. : Iron Man-He goes into an important battle in : a suit of massive destructive power : completely plastered. Following the death : of the Black Widow who he claimed to have : truly loved less than a week goes by before : he is back to his womanizing ways. Based on : what few lines of information he gave of : past experiences it sounds like he was a : creep to begin with. : : The Wasp-This is the only Ultimate besides : Thor that I cannot think of something truly : despicable about her. At worst one could : say she was trying to be with both Captain : America and Hank Pym at the same time. Also : that she was into the publicity a bit too : much, but compared to the psychopathic flaws : of some of the other characters she actually : comes off as sane. : : Thor-Thor is the one character who comes out : of the whole thing looking admirable. About : the only negative thing he did was way back : in Ultimates 1 insisting the president : double the foreign aid budget. Other than : that you have a being who came to bring : peace to the world through understanding and : not brute force, a person who uses violence : as a last resort, and helps people he : doesn’t agree with or even like when lives : are in danger. He was also the only one who : refused to use the Ultimates to enforce the : will of one country on the rest of the : world. Even the question of whether or not : he killed Loki at the end is debatable given : Thor’s conflicting comments. Yet throughout : Ultimates 1 and nearly all of Ultimates 2 : along with all of the other appearances in : the Ultimates line he was portrayed as a : loser and a nut. Makes one wonder??? : : As I have tried to point out, how are the : Ultimates really that different from the : Liberators? : (I have deliberately left out Hank Pym and : Black Widow since them being called : Ultimates is dubious at best.) : : : : :

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Message Thread: What was the difference between the Ultimates and the Liberators? Plust other Thoughts (Spoilers) - seeker 5/19/2007, 11:58 pm Re: What was the difference between the Ultimates and the Liberators? Plust other Thoughts (Spoilers - Michael Jung 8/4/2007, 6:04 am Re: What was the difference between the Ultimates and the Liberators? Plust other Thoughts (Spoilers - Martin 9/5/2007, 6:28 pm Exactly... which is awesome! - The One 8/5/2007, 11:35 pm Only In Ultimates I Hope - Fred 8/6/2007, 9:18 pm Agree with your comments - Disagree with your feelings - The One 8/3/2007, 3:37 am Re: Agree with your comments - Disagree with your feelings - seeker 8/3/2007, 2:06 pm Answer - The One 8/5/2007, 11:44 pm Re: Answer - seeker 8/10/2007, 3:06 am Re: What was the difference between the Ultimates and the Liberators? Plust other Thoughts (Spoilers) - Nick 8/2/2007, 1:45 am « Back to thread

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