Re: What was the difference between the Ultimates and the Liberators? Plust other Thoughts (Spoilers)
Posted by Nick on 8/2/2007, 1:45 am, in reply to "What was the difference between the Ultimates and the Liberators? Plust other Thoughts (Spoilers)"
I got to say i agree with pretty much everything you said, I loved 616 cap because in 616 he did represent a true hero, ultimate Cap is simply a government yes man who never questions orders. As far as Hawkeyes actions, it think its more of how assassins handle other assassins who have wronged them, it might be a part of a story where hawkeye becomes closer and closer to the punisher. A criminal who kills criminals.|
: I finally got a chance to read Ultimates 2 #13
: today. I has previously read reviews online
: and heard other peoplesí opinions, but I
: honestly tried to read it with an open mind.
: While at first glance it appeared awesome,
: upon stepping back I was left very
: disappointed. One review I remember reading
: stated Thor was really the sole hero and was
: left asking what is the difference between
: the Liberators and the Ultimates? At the
: end of it I was wondering the same thing.
: While I understand heroes need to have flaws
: and if taking a realistic approach will not
: be perfect, but besides Thor who in the
: Ultimates is there left to admire?
: Captain America-The living symbol of
: In Ultimates 1 he was accused by some as
: being a jingonestic thug. He beat up Banner
: after he was no longer the Hulk. He went
: solo and used military resources to hunt
: down and beat up Hank Pym on his own before
: Pym was convicted or anything. These two
: instances are somewhat understandable given
: the circumstances, and I am sure many people
: rooted for Cap upon beating Pym since he is
: far worse than his mainstream cousin.
: However, in Ultimates 2 this rogueness and
: thuggery continued.
: In Ultimates 2 upon hearing the possibility
: Thor is a traitor he goes to beat him up.
: Think about this for a moment. Thor was a
: confirmed pacifist who, has Thor himself
: pointed out, despised the death penalty.
: Unlike Hank Pym there wasnít even any
: evidence at the time that Thor did it only a
: possibility. Remember, Cap as of yet did
: not know Thorís ďhistory.Ē Yet Cap, being
: the brilliant tactician he is, decides to go
: pick a fight with not only one of the most
: powerful beings on the planet, but in a club
: full of people who despise Captain America
: and support Thor. Later, Cap takes part in
: an invasion of another country to further
: Americaís foreign policy despite assurances
: the Ultimates would not be used abroad.
: Finally, in the final battle against the
: Liberators, despite claiming Americans do
: not coldly execute people without a trial,
: that is exactly what he does after the
: Colonel was already beaten and dishanded.
: If he was still a threat and the battle was
: still going on I could understand, but the
: battle was already over. Throughout this,
: what were Capís actions but a jingonistic
: thug? I know he wasnít as bad as a true
: thug, but truthfully how did he have the
: moral high ground? Itís been so long since
: they invaded what ever country it was, but
: even if you do not factor in that if you
: look at Ultimate Captain America what is he
: but a person who without regard for the law
: beats up people with little to no evidence
: simply because he thinks they did something
: wrong or have already been defeated?
: Hawkeye-Murdered the Black Widow.
: I know most people applauded this action,
: and all things considered she probable
: deserved it. But isnít that was the
: judicial system is for. She had already
: been defeated and did not seem to be much of
: a threat. Yet Hawkeye just coldly executed
: Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch-I admit it has
: been awhile with them and due to lengthy
: times between issues I might have forgotten
: something, but last time I checked werenít
: they incestuous twins who believed in
: mutant superiority and only helped the
: Ultimates due to fear of their former
: The Hulk- A cannibalistic monster who is not
: misunderstood. I think anything else about
: him is fairly obvious.
: Iron Man-He goes into an important battle in
: a suit of massive destructive power
: completely plastered. Following the death
: of the Black Widow who he claimed to have
: truly loved less than a week goes by before
: he is back to his womanizing ways. Based on
: what few lines of information he gave of
: past experiences it sounds like he was a
: creep to begin with.
: The Wasp-This is the only Ultimate besides
: Thor that I cannot think of something truly
: despicable about her. At worst one could
: say she was trying to be with both Captain
: America and Hank Pym at the same time. Also
: that she was into the publicity a bit too
: much, but compared to the psychopathic flaws
: of some of the other characters she actually
: comes off as sane.
: Thor-Thor is the one character who comes out
: of the whole thing looking admirable. About
: the only negative thing he did was way back
: in Ultimates 1 insisting the president
: double the foreign aid budget. Other than
: that you have a being who came to bring
: peace to the world through understanding and
: not brute force, a person who uses violence
: as a last resort, and helps people he
: doesnít agree with or even like when lives
: are in danger. He was also the only one who
: refused to use the Ultimates to enforce the
: will of one country on the rest of the
: world. Even the question of whether or not
: he killed Loki at the end is debatable given
: Thorís conflicting comments. Yet throughout
: Ultimates 1 and nearly all of Ultimates 2
: along with all of the other appearances in
: the Ultimates line he was portrayed as a
: loser and a nut. Makes one wonder???
: As I have tried to point out, how are the
: Ultimates really that different from the
: (I have deliberately left out Hank Pym and
: Black Widow since them being called
: Ultimates is dubious at best.)
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