Posted by JH
on 9/10/2009, 22:17:05, in reply to "Re: The Oranges need a court jester again.."
82.170.78.115
You sum it up very well.I must admit I found it a "kruis" and toe-curling at times to listen too.
Really.Did you notice?Only a handfull of MP's in attendance.....
....Making noise and then not
showing up while thinking of their next noisy bit....
--Previous Message--
: In the debate the Premier directed any
: suggestions of a miscommunication with the
: Prince to Fairytaleland.
:
: According to the Premier he was involved
: from the very first beginning, there was a
: deep investigation on beforehand, many talks
: have been between him and the princely
: couple, reports were ordered by the
: intelligence- and security services and las
: but not least the Landsadvocaat has
: investigated the legal setting of the whole
: process.
:
: Any claim as if the Prince would not, or not
: completely, have informed the Premier was
: fiercely denied. The Premier became quite
: irritated when some members of the Chamber
: quoted anonymous sources from unknown places
: which 'would have said' this or that. The
: Premier urged the Chamber to stick to the
: facts as these are.
:
: The Premier also made clear that it was not
: the Prince or Princess' own choice to have
: security around them. Like it was not the
: choice of Geert Wilders (one of the MP's) to
: be protected all the time. Like there is no
: limit to the freedom of Geert Wilders to
: travel and stand where he wants, the same
: counts for members of the Royal House, or
: ministers or any other who face security.
:
: For the rest the Premier made clear that the
: responsibility for the project was given to
: a legal entity (a foundation) and that the
: Board of that foundation is responsible for
: all decisions and matters in the Machangulo
: Project. It remains open to the princely
: couple to end their participation in the
: Machangulo project. The Premier has pointed
: to the fact that no any fraction in the
: Chamber has contested the freedom the
: princely couple has to choose their own
: holiday destination and/or to make their own
: private investments.
:
: The Premier promised the Chamber to limit
: the free use of Government planes to only
: those who are named in the Act on the
: financial statute (the present, the former
: and the future King and their spouses), with
: the notion that the Queen has always free
: use and the others until a certain limit.
:
: The Premier also was willing to give the
: Chamber an annual report on the expenditures
: of the Royal House. This is already for
: years available but now it will be done more
: or less in the British way.
:
: The Premier was not willing to give a new
: Note On The Kingship. He referred to the
: Note by Premier Kok in 2000 which was still
: relevant. He remembered the Chamber on
: discussions about the Note On The Kingship
: 2000, the Act on the membership of the Royal
: House 2002, the Act financial statute Royal
: House 2008, the various discussions in
: between and urged that the Royal House is
: not 'static' but 'dynamic'.
:
: He referred to the fact that Queen Beatrix
: is a total different monarch than Queen
: Juliana. And Queen Juliana also was total
: different than Queen Wilhelmina. But all of
: them were Queen in the same constitutional
: system. This proves how flexible and ongoing
: changing the monarchy is, so stated the
: Premier.
:
: The PVV (the right-wing populistic party of
: Geer Wilders) issued Motions to urge the
: Government to start a reform of the
: Constitution to get the Queen out of the
: Government, to review the tax regime of the
: head of state, to cut the Budget of the
: Queen with 20%, etc.
:
: None of these Motions will meet enough
: support in the Chamber.
:
: D66, SP and other parties made a plea for a
: purely ceremonial kingship. The Premier
: answered that the kingship already is
: ceremonial: the King is inviolable, the
: ministers are responsible. This means that
: the Queen has no polticial influence but is
: a part of the processes in the state. The
: political influence lies in the
: States-General. And not with the Queen.
:
: The Premier was also not convinced that a
: strict separation will end 'little
: troubles'. He refers to other monarchies
: where the King is no integral part of the
: monarchy itself but where it is also not
: 'all quiet'. The argument of separating the
: membership of the Government or the
: presidency of the Council of State could not
: convince the Premier.
:
: He pointed to the Chamber that the
: Netherlands have a hybrid system. The
: legislative powers lies with the
: States-General ánd the Government. The
: powers of the justice lies with the
: independent 'sitting magistrature' (judges)
: and the under ministerial responsibility
: 'standing magistrature' (the prosecutors).
: The Netherlands constitutional system is
: full with these hybrid forms of powers. And
: as the King is always under ministerial
: responsibility the Premier saw no need for
: drastic changes and declared that he was
: fully conviced for the 'added value' of the
: monarchy is it is today.
: